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    Thread: Concrete sealant

    1. #41
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by FRK View Post
      Ok, Ok, Ok. Listen up! This thread was started to see if anyone here had experience with RaydonSeal. Was looking for backup to the web site reviews Pro/Con. Was not looking to start a turf war over who found out about Xypex first. I appredciate learning obout Xypex for future consideration. I appreciate even more the education I have recieved from Rich. Thank you Rich and I hope I can come to you if needed later on. Let me give you a little more input to my situation. I am still currently employed. (not yet retired). I work as an Engineer on River Tow Boats. My work schedule keeps me away from home for a month or more at a time. I am trying to get my project set up and running before I retire a year from now. As Rich has stated the concrete cure goes on forever deminishing over time on a logrithmic curve. But initialy without a sealant most likely there will be issues that will need to be tested and corrected to maintain balance. I might not be home to do the monitoring and feel comfortible about putting fish in until I am confident of the stability. I believe a bareier of some sort will provide me a shortcut to achieving this stability. I hearby volinteer to be the official forum guinypig for RaydonSeal.
      This product costs $159.00 for 5 gal. that covers 800 - 1000 sqft. and can be applied with a bug sprayer. Non toxic, non flamable, enviroment and fish safe.



      RadonSeal® Penetrating Concrete Sealer is deep-penetrating reactive concrete sealer that penetrates deep into concrete (up to 4"), reacts with lime and alkalis, forcefully expands inside capillaries, and hardens as an insoluble silicate mineral. (Silicates are the "binders" in concrete.)
      The many benefits of sealing your concrete with RadonSeal® Penetrating Concrete Sealer:

      Seals concrete against water seepage, water vapor.
      Reduces indoor humidity preventing the growth of molds and mildew, alleviates basement odors.
      Helps prevent the growth of molds, mildew, and musty odors.
      Strengthens concrete reducing concrete dusting, spalling, and cracking.
      Seals against efflorescence.
      Neutralizes alkalis, protects paint, thinset, epoxy coatings, etc. Acts as a concrete primer.
      Safe, Spray or Roll-On Application – Apply RadonSeal to your basement concrete using an airless sprayer, hand-pump "garden" sprayer, roller, or brush. RadonSeal is a waterborne concrete sealer – ZERO VOCs, no noxious fumes, non-toxic, nonflammable, and non-hazardous. The sealer absorbs inside the concrete leaving the surface slip resistant and paintable (does not change the appearance or profile of the concrete).
      It looks like a decent concrete sealer so what are you going to use to waterproof the concrete? How are you going to seal the pipe and drain penetrations? I think if this is all you do it will not accomplish these things as the product literature says nothing about water proofing and sounds more like a primer. I ask this only because it says it seals against water seepage and doesn’t specifically say that it water proofs. Usually when a product is vague about what it does it allows an out when it fails. Also, sealers tend to have to be reapplied over time. Xypex, once in your pour, and you are permanently water proofed unless you have a failure. Even with Xypex you still have to seal the plumbing penetrations somehow.
      Last edited by Russell Peters; 03-03-2018 at 05:16 PM.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    2. #42
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      How did you seal your plumbing penetration?

    3. #43
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      I did talk to a tech on the phone and no it is not a seal for static pressure. I think the 10" poor will be static proof enough. The form contractor said the concrete will seal to the plumbing.

    4. #44
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      I have always been taught that it makes no difference whether you seal the concrete or not. In fact, I have been told it is better to not paint, or seal, the concrete. I only use a pool paint for the color it provides. I have never had a single issue with untreated concrete and certainly see no reason to wait before using a concrete pond for Koi.

      What water proofing goes with this statement?

    5. #45
      malatu is offline Supporting Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by FRK View Post
      I did talk to a tech on the phone and no it is not a seal for static pressure. I think the 10" poor will be static proof enough. The form contractor said the concrete will seal to the plumbing.
      I would be leery about the concrete acting as a self sealant around pipes going through penetrations in concrete. I would at the very least, use 3M 5200 marine sealant. Designed for underwater use. At $24 per tube, it's pricey, but worth every penny.

      I've read though all the posts (advice) and I concur, adding the waterproofing additive at the plant is a 'no brainier'. Have them do it at the plant! I'd also consider having fiberglass mixed into the concrete (at the plant) for added strength. It serves the same purpose as rebar but at the micro level.

      Also insist on a low water mix of concrete. Too much water results in a weaker concrete, causes surface spalling and hairline cracks. Once it sets up, keep it moist and cool with wet blankets to slow the curing of the concrete. This will promote stronger concrete and mitigates hairline cracks. If it come to the job site too wet, send it back! Use the slump test to test its water level. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete_slump_test

      Don't settle for anything less!
      Last edited by malatu; 03-03-2018 at 05:33 PM. Reason: Dumb typos and clarification

    6. #46
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      Quote Originally Posted by FRK View Post
      How did you seal your plumbing penetration?
      I just used hydraulic cement.
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

      "It is far better to be alone, than to be in bad company." --George Washington

    7. #47
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      Russ Uses hydraulic cement also I believe.

    8. #48
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      Quote Originally Posted by FRK View Post
      I did talk to a tech on the phone and no it is not a seal for static pressure. I think the 10" poor will be static proof enough. The form contractor said the concrete will seal to the plumbing.
      Sorry, he is wrong. Water can travel along the plastic and leak out. He is just telling you what you want to hear.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    9. #49
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      Russ Uses hydraulic cement also I believe.
      No, you are wrong, I do not use hydraulic cement around the pipes. Please stop answering for me.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    10. #50
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      My understanding is that hydraulic cement expands just a little bit and as a result, works better when it has a cavity of sorts to cure and expand within. It this is accurate and is used to seal a plastic pipe coming though a cement wall (assuming the concrete was poured around the pipe and then finished by troweling), the hydraulic cement wouldn't have anything to expand into and stay put. I've used hydraulic cement for penetrations through cinder block that had places where you could compact the cement into penetration and around the pipe. This application was below grade but not below water and it works like a champ! With that said, I've never used hydraulic cement below the water line. I've only used 3M 5200 caulk.

      They sell the the 3m 5200 in smaller tubes that you could test and see how it works. You could do the same with the cement.

    11. #51
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      Quote Originally Posted by FRK View Post
      I have always been taught that it makes no difference whether you seal the concrete or not. In fact, I have been told it is better to not paint, or seal, the concrete. I only use a pool paint for the color it provides. I have never had a single issue with untreated concrete and certainly see no reason to wait before using a concrete pond for Koi.

      What water proofing goes with this statement?

      The statement has nothing to do with water proofing. The statement has everything to do with contradicting those who say that unsealed concrete is harmful to your Koi. IMO, it is not. The water proofing I use goes into the concrete and it is Xypex. Concrete, on it’s own is not water proof and will seep or leak.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    12. #52
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      "I've read though the post, an additive ate the plant is a no brainier." Sorry! I don't understand this line?

    13. #53
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      Eeks! I should have proofed my post! So Sorry, let me clarify.

      For me, I'd have the cement waterproofed at the plant via an additive. If I were in your position having it done at the plant would be a "no brainer" for me. I wouldn't even give it a second thought.

      I also edited the post you referred to and fixed the typos and clarified things a bit!
      Last edited by malatu; 03-03-2018 at 05:35 PM.

    14. #54
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      lol, ok thanks malatu! I will talk to my contractor monday about all of great advise I'm getting here. Thank you all.

    15. #55
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      Quote Originally Posted by FRK View Post
      How did you seal your plumbing penetration?
      From a thread I linked on page 1. I do realize they are long but when you have a moment you should read over the entire thing.

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...73#post2572673

      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      We got back to work today. I started off by chiseling out a little bit of concrete around all of the plumbing in the pond. I filled this space with marine caulk to seal the pipes, and skimmers, to the concrete. You can see the sheen from the caulk around the pipes in the picture. I also scraped down the hydraulic cement I put in a couple of days ago. Once the pond is swept out it is ready to be painted. The pond paint was ordered weeks ago but was sent back, by FedEx, as they said it was damaged. It wasn't damaged. The shipper said they would send it again, two day express, and it was supposed to be here Friday. It did not come so we will have to keep waiting.

    16. #56
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      Wow!! I just went through the entire build thread for kby103 by Russ. Amazing job Russ Now I need to put the brakes on my entire plan and start asking more questions.
      I believe my contractor was planning on pooring a footer to support the walls, then pooring the walls, then I would have to get a flat work crew in after that to poor the floor. After seeing your thread this may be all wrong. Will I have a problem with the floor bonding to the wall if they are poored after the walls are set?

    17. #57
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      How big are the tanks? Inside or outside? Above or in ground? Are you going to heat the tanks?

      An insulated wood frame tank with a drop in liner can be heated using 50-70% less energy costs. A huge factor to consider if you want to heat and accelerate growth but depends on the type, depth and size of tanks wanted.
      Last edited by BWG; 03-05-2018 at 08:41 AM.

    18. #58
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      Quote Originally Posted by FRK View Post
      Wow!! I just went through the entire build thread for kby103 by Russ. Amazing job Russ Now I need to put the brakes on my entire plan and start asking more questions.
      I believe my contractor was planning on pooring a footer to support the walls, then pooring the walls, then I would have to get a flat work crew in after that to poor the floor. After seeing your thread this may be all wrong. Will I have a problem with the floor bonding to the wall if they are poored after the walls are set?
      Yes, that is called a cold joint and is not good. For pour integrity, if that is the route you are going, look for someone that can do a monolithic pour like Russ does.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

      I'll say something when I feel I have something worth saying. I'm not a fan of flapping my lips just because they are there.

    19. #59
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      Sounds like you are stressing a bit. Here is what I suggest. Take the work order / plans from your concrete guy, sens them to Russ, and have him give you a quote. I think that will make your life much easier.

    20. #60
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      A monolithic pour is the best long term permanent solution, especially when Xypex is added to the mix. Back in the day we built many "watertight" concrete structures with lots of cold joints, but each joint had a continuous flexible waterstop partially embedded on each side of the cold joint and some leaks still happened. Your contractor is addressing some of the leaks using 10" instead of 8" walls, but the joint where the floor and wall joins is still an issue. When comparing quotes, ask lots of questions about provisions for keeping leaks to a minimum at the cracks and joints so you can make an apples to apples comparison. All concrete shrinks and cracks, and a monolithic pour will too, but one of the jobs of the reinforcing is to keeps the cracks tight. Cracking is always expected, that is the beauty of Xypex that grows crystals to fill in and plug those micro cracks even if they happen 3 to 5 years from now. A leaking cold joint is much harder to fix.
      Last edited by Grumpy; 03-05-2018 at 01:47 PM.

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