• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
    Results 21 to 40 of 94

    Thread: Concrete sealant

    1. #21
      FRK's Avatar
      FRK is online now Supporting Member
      is On the home stretch
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2018
      Location
      Southwest Missouri, USA
      Posts
      230
      Ok. And thank you all for your patience with me and all this good information. Very very much appreciated. When I get home I will test the KH of my well water. And if my KH is good and buffers are there then my concern still remains. Should I seal to prevent migration or not. Without sealing If my PH goes up beyound acceptible levels what steps do I take. Drain the water and refill? Balance it with an additive, monitor and maintain and give it some time to stabilize? How long will this cureing take? If the RadonSeal product works as advertized then my PH level in my tanks should remain the same as the well water going in and if the KH is good then I'm ready to go for fish. Correct or no?

    2. #22
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is online now Administrator ~ WWKC Treasurer
      is usually here but if not I'm
      probably off flying
       
      Feeling:
      Piratey
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2007
      Location
      Poulsbo, WA
      Posts
      26,147
      Here's a good thread that Rich explains some of the options. I still think that unless you need to add fish immediately after the concrete
      is poured and filled with water, any increase in pH will dissipate on it's own rather quickly.

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...High-PH-issues
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

      "It is far better to be alone, than to be in bad company." --George Washington

    3. #23
      FRK's Avatar
      FRK is online now Supporting Member
      is On the home stretch
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2018
      Location
      Southwest Missouri, USA
      Posts
      230
      Thank you Steve! That helps very much.

    4. #24
      RichToyBox's Avatar
      RichToyBox is offline Administrator ~ WWKC BOD ~
      Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Awesome
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Sandston, VA
      Posts
      13,382
      You may find that your well water, when it comes out of the pipe is at the pH you state, but if you were to put it in a bucket with an air stone, and come back the next day and measure, the pH would be closer to 8.3 or 8.4. Most well water has flowed through limestone and in doing so, it dissolves some of the limestone, giving it a decent amount of carbonates (carbon tri-oxide for lack of a better term), but it also has a high amount of carbon dioxide and the carbon dioxide is acid. Aeration will drive off the carbon dioxide, removing the acid from the water causing the pH to rise, but generally not above 8.3/8.4.

      As for the time for the migration of the calcium hydroxide, it will happen forever, just falling off in a logarithmic curve. The day the concrete is poured, much will be readily able to migrate outward, as the concrete is not very dense until it has cured. As it cures, which will happen in air or under water, the concrete becomes much more dense making it more like a solid than a sponge, and as such migration slows. Concrete, in the presence of water and with reasonable temperatures will continue to cure/hydrate/improve/densify/strengthen... forever. If it is allowed to be exposed to the atmosphere, the calcium hydroxide will react with carbon dioxide and create calcium carbonate on the surface and within the pore structure near the surface, densifying the surface, closing down the pore structure. Concrete is defined by its 28 day strength because there needs to a standard time and temperature for the samples, as concrete is constantly improving and we can't wait for it to be 50 years old to run the tests, and testing at one day or 3 days is affected so much by the delivery temperature and first day curing conditions.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    5. #25
      FRK's Avatar
      FRK is online now Supporting Member
      is On the home stretch
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2018
      Location
      Southwest Missouri, USA
      Posts
      230
      Again, thank you Rich. I started this thread asking if anyone was familiar with a product I was interested in using to create a barrier against harmful elements in concrete leaching in to the water. In all of the threads I was refered to with the exception of one, everyone else used a barrier of some sort Xypex or Xypex and paint. The one exception was with assitance from Rich on a daily basis adding this element or that element testing and retesting, adding banana peels and pinapple or oyster shells and in the end Muratic Acid for a period time I don't recall being mentiond if it ever was.
      When i was at Purdin Farm talking about concrete ponds of which they have several acres of them. I was told I would have to use a barrier of some sort or either let cure for a year. They have done both. They used epoxy on some. The cost of epoxy was to high for me so I started doing some Google research to find something more affordable. I am going to use RadonSeal. I will post my results and perhaps it will add pro or con to the knowledge base of the forum.

    6. #26
      Russell Peters's Avatar
      Russell Peters is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Dec 2007
      Location
      .
      Posts
      25,538
      I have always been taught that it makes no difference whether you seal the concrete or not. In fact, I have been told it is better to not paint, or seal, the concrete. I only use a pool paint for the color it provides. I have never had a single issue with untreated concrete and certainly see no reason to wait before using a concrete pond for Koi.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    7. #27
      FRK's Avatar
      FRK is online now Supporting Member
      is On the home stretch
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2018
      Location
      Southwest Missouri, USA
      Posts
      230
      Hmmmmm! Comming from you I am giving this post a lot of respect. I admire your buisness and experience. I have 0 experienc with concrete ponds. I have some time before this issue gets on top of me so I will ponder for a while. Maybe when the time gets here I can add water to one tank (I am doing four) and see what it looks like. Holding three in reserve. I would like to come to the Koi Show in Indiana this year perhaps we can meet.

    8. #28
      ricshaw's Avatar
      ricshaw is offline Senior Member
      is who misses his Koi.
       
      Feeling:
      Bemused
       
      Join Date
      Jan 2016
      Location
      Southern California
      Posts
      1,632
      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      I have always been taught that it makes no difference whether you seal the concrete or not. In fact, I have been told it is better to not paint, or seal, the concrete. I only use a pool paint for the color it provides. I have never had a single issue with untreated concrete and certainly see no reason to wait before using a concrete pond for Koi.
      I agree.

      Both of my concrete ponds were sealed with a plaster coat of 50/50 cement and silica sand.

    9. #29
      mplskoi is online now Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2013
      Location
      Minneapolis
      Posts
      1,184
      Quote Originally Posted by FRK View Post
      Hmmmmm! Comming from you I am giving this post a lot of respect. I admire your buisness and experience. I have 0 experienc with concrete ponds. I have some time before this issue gets on top of me so I will ponder for a while. Maybe when the time gets here I can add water to one tank (I am doing four) and see what it looks like. Holding three in reserve. I would like to come to the Koi Show in Indiana this year perhaps we can meet.
      One of the upsides of using RadonSeal (for us) is that you can be the guinea pig and we can see how it works for you. Of course if it gives you any trouble the community here will not be able to help you.
      The upside of using Xypex is that so many people here have used it and are so familiar with it that we can all give advice as you go along. Tried and true product with a lot of faithful fans here.
      When you get to your actual project you will likely be advised on the importance of properly curing your concrete. Keeping it damp as much as possible for as long as possible leads to better performance and longevity. The concrete has to set a certain amount before you can fill the tanks. But one of the easiest ways to help you concrete cure is to fill the tank as soon as it is ready. Keeping it saturated 100%. I think others will encourage you to fill every tank as soon as it is ready and just be ready to add calcium chloride (?) to balance the water parameters. My water was balanced within one month of my build being completed.
      Russ is about to bring tens (maybe over a hundred?) of thousands of dollars worth of fish into freshly poured tanks. If he isn't worried about it I wouldn't either.

    10. #30
      Jonathan1982 is online now Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jan 2017
      Location
      CA
      Posts
      80
      Quote Originally Posted by RichToyBox View Post
      You may find that your well water, when it comes out of the pipe is at the pH you state, but if you were to put it in a bucket with an air stone, and come back the next day and measure, the pH would be closer to 8.3 or 8.4. Most well water has flowed through limestone and in doing so, it dissolves some of the limestone, giving it a decent amount of carbonates (carbon tri-oxide for lack of a better term), but it also has a high amount of carbon dioxide and the carbon dioxide is acid. Aeration will drive off the carbon dioxide, removing the acid from the water causing the pH to rise, but generally not above 8.3/8.4.

      As for the time for the migration of the calcium hydroxide, it will happen forever, just falling off in a logarithmic curve. The day the concrete is poured, much will be readily able to migrate outward, as the concrete is not very dense until it has cured. As it cures, which will happen in air or under water, the concrete becomes much more dense making it more like a solid than a sponge, and as such migration slows. Concrete, in the presence of water and with reasonable temperatures will continue to cure/hydrate/improve/densify/strengthen... forever. If it is allowed to be exposed to the atmosphere, the calcium hydroxide will react with carbon dioxide and create calcium carbonate on the surface and within the pore structure near the surface, densifying the surface, closing down the pore structure. Concrete is defined by its 28 day strength because there needs to a standard time and temperature for the samples, as concrete is constantly improving and we can't wait for it to be 50 years old to run the tests, and testing at one day or 3 days is affected so much by the delivery temperature and first day curing conditions.
      Rich,
      Just to that I am understanding this correctly. I have a 12K gallons concrete pond. Current fish load is 23 fishes ranging from 10" to 20". My parameters are as follows using an Exact Eco Check and API drop test:
      Nitrite: LO (which means 0 as per the instructions)
      Ammonia: LO (which means 0 but I do understand that it cant be 0)
      Nitrate: ranges from 3.8 PPM to 7.87 PPM
      PH: 8.28 to 8.3 (morning and evening)
      KH: 176 to 157 PPM (8 - 9 drops)
      GH: 12 to 13 drops

      My tapwater has high KH 180+ and high GH 13 drops

      I was wondering:
      (1) If I were to lower my GH by means of water softening to 1 drop (17 PPM) would that affect my PH to go lower or higher? Granted KH remains in the same ballpark of 150+
      (2) Would it be any added benefit if the GH is lowered as far as the fishes are concerned?

      thanks

    11. #31
      Russell Peters's Avatar
      Russell Peters is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Dec 2007
      Location
      .
      Posts
      25,538
      Quote Originally Posted by mplskoi View Post
      One of the upsides of using RadonSeal (for us) is that you can be the guinea pig and we can see how it works for you. Of course if it gives you any trouble the community here will not be able to help you.
      The upside of using Xypex is that so many people here have used it and are so familiar with it that we can all give advice as you go along. Tried and true product with a lot of faithful fans here.
      When you get to your actual project you will likely be advised on the importance of properly curing your concrete. Keeping it damp as much as possible for as long as possible leads to better performance and longevity. The concrete has to set a certain amount before you can fill the tanks. But one of the easiest ways to help you concrete cure is to fill the tank as soon as it is ready. Keeping it saturated 100%. I think others will encourage you to fill every tank as soon as it is ready and just be ready to add calcium chloride (?) to balance the water parameters. My water was balanced within one month of my build being completed.
      Russ is about to bring tens (maybe over a hundred?) of thousands of dollars worth of fish into freshly poured tanks. If he isn't worried about it I wouldn't either.
      74 boxes with 200k in Koi are coming in
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    12. #32
      lukef's Avatar
      lukef is offline king of the lilliputians
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2006
      Location
      florida
      Posts
      4,263
      I can't recall anyone before me using Xypex. No one really knew about it. i found it used for potable water containment. And I just put a thick stucco coat on the inside of my concrete pond. if I was pouring a pond I would use it as an admixture for sure.
      It does my heart good to see that it caught on.
      Some where in this 'thread" you will see the stucco crew ...
      http://winterholerct.net/lakeluke/
      "Those aren't poodles. They're Dobermans with afros."

    13. #33
      Russell Peters's Avatar
      Russell Peters is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Dec 2007
      Location
      .
      Posts
      25,538
      Quote Originally Posted by lukef View Post
      I can't recall anyone before me using Xypex. No one really knew about it. i found it used for potable water containment. And I just put a thick stucco coat on the inside of my concrete pond. if I was pouring a pond I would use it as an admixture for sure.
      It does my heart good to see that it caught on.
      Some where in this 'thread" you will see the stucco crew ...
      http://winterholerct.net/lakeluke/
      I never knew you used it on your pond. Xypex has been in the construction industry for a lot longer than I can recall. It was invented to seal below grade parking structures in high rise buildings.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    14. #34
      FRK's Avatar
      FRK is online now Supporting Member
      is On the home stretch
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2018
      Location
      Southwest Missouri, USA
      Posts
      230
      Don't forget that even though Russ may have experience with new concrete tanks without a sealant in the past. On his new build he is using pool paint for the asthetics, but it also serves as a barrier.

    15. #35
      RichToyBox's Avatar
      RichToyBox is offline Administrator ~ WWKC BOD ~
      Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Awesome
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Sandston, VA
      Posts
      13,382
      Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan1982 View Post
      Rich,
      Just to that I am understanding this correctly. I have a 12K gallons concrete pond. Current fish load is 23 fishes ranging from 10" to 20". My parameters are as follows using an Exact Eco Check and API drop test:
      Nitrite: LO (which means 0 as per the instructions)
      Ammonia: LO (which means 0 but I do understand that it cant be 0)
      Nitrate: ranges from 3.8 PPM to 7.87 PPM
      PH: 8.28 to 8.3 (morning and evening)
      KH: 176 to 157 PPM (8 - 9 drops)
      GH: 12 to 13 drops

      My tapwater has high KH 180+ and high GH 13 drops

      I was wondering:
      (1) If I were to lower my GH by means of water softening to 1 drop (17 PPM) would that affect my PH to go lower or higher? Granted KH remains in the same ballpark of 150+
      (2) Would it be any added benefit if the GH is lowered as far as the fishes are concerned?

      thanks
      As posted in PM, but for everyone else's benefit.
      "I don't remember the numbers but there is a minimum GH for fish health. Both magnesium and calcium are needed and it is my understanding that there is insufficient dietary amounts, so it needs to be in the water. It is not real high, maybe 4 drops on the test kit. I think that if you do an Advanced Search for GH, calcium, magnesium by Roddy Conrad you may find the post. It was posted maybe 10 or 12 years ago. The calcium component is needed to bring the pH down to the 8.3/8.4 type reading if it goes higher, but will do nothing to cause the pH to go up, and is only needed if there is a source of excess hydroxide leaching from the concrete, which could happen if fairly new ponds but not likely in ponds that are several months old. Use of a water softener is useful but needs to be hooked up in a manner that the water can be a mix of softened water and straight tap water to maintain a reasonable GH value.

      Your test results look very good, and yes a water softener may be beneficial to better skin, or so they say. I have never tried to control the GH, just used what the county furnished. "

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    16. #36
      kevin32's Avatar
      kevin32 is online now Supporting Member
      is chillin
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2014
      Location
      Brentwood, ca up north
      Posts
      7,631
      Quote Originally Posted by FRK View Post
      Don't forget that even though Russ may have experience with new concrete tanks without a sealant in the past. On his new build he is using pool paint for the asthetics, but it also serves as a barrier.
      I agree it does at first. I honestly feel concrete then a tile thinset before a coating helps a lot. Whether it is pond armor etc..thinset is somewhat water proof in its own and let's the top coating adhere much better. I might build a 1400 gallon tank using xypex and then use Thinset and pond armor for my grow out pond. Lots of safety .

    17. #37
      lukef's Avatar
      lukef is offline king of the lilliputians
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2006
      Location
      florida
      Posts
      4,263
      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      I never knew you used it on your pond. Xypex has been in the construction industry for a lot longer than I can recall. It was invented to seal below grade parking structures in high rise buildings.
      well ya nevah read my pond construction thread (probably because he who shall remain nameless had a stick grow in his butt so it had to be preserved somewhere else... but when I used it I couldn't find anyone on the web that had ever even thought about it, or at least could tell me anything..and yeah I "knew" of its uses. I doubt there was just one. Once it was proven contractor geeks started using it for all things watery...none were koi ponds
      "Those aren't poodles. They're Dobermans with afros."

    18. #38
      kevin32's Avatar
      kevin32 is online now Supporting Member
      is chillin
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2014
      Location
      Brentwood, ca up north
      Posts
      7,631
      Quote Originally Posted by lukef View Post
      well ya nevah read my pond construction thread (probably because he who shall remain nameless had a stick grow in his butt so it had to be preserved somewhere else... but when I used it I couldn't find anyone on the web that had ever even thought about it, or at least could tell me anything..and yeah I "knew" of its uses. I doubt there was just one. Once it was proven contractor geeks started using it for all things watery...none were koi ponds
      He might have even got the idea from you but is way to stubborn to admit it imo he thinks he is simply the best lol and always will

    19. #39
      Russell Peters's Avatar
      Russell Peters is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Dec 2007
      Location
      .
      Posts
      25,538
      Quote Originally Posted by lukef View Post
      well ya nevah read my pond construction thread (probably because he who shall remain nameless had a stick grow in his butt so it had to be preserved somewhere else... but when I used it I couldn't find anyone on the web that had ever even thought about it, or at least could tell me anything..and yeah I "knew" of its uses. I doubt there was just one. Once it was proven contractor geeks started using it for all things watery...none were koi ponds
      It was invented in Vancouver in 1969 and was for all things watery, including damns so I am surprised you didn’t find anyone that would suggest using it tor what you did. I don’t think I was even on here when you posted you build thread. To be honest, I don’t even remember how I found out about it.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    20. #40
      FRK's Avatar
      FRK is online now Supporting Member
      is On the home stretch
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2018
      Location
      Southwest Missouri, USA
      Posts
      230
      Ok, Ok, Ok. Listen up! This thread was started to see if anyone here had experience with RaydonSeal. Was looking for backup to the web site reviews Pro/Con. Was not looking to start a turf war over who found out about Xypex first. I appredciate learning obout Xypex for future consideration. I appreciate even more the education I have recieved from Rich. Thank you Rich and I hope I can come to you if needed later on. Let me give you a little more input to my situation. I am still currently employed. (not yet retired). I work as an Engineer on River Tow Boats. My work schedule keeps me away from home for a month or more at a time. I am trying to get my project set up and running before I retire a year from now. As Rich has stated the concrete cure goes on forever deminishing over time on a logrithmic curve. But initialy without a sealant most likely there will be issues that will need to be tested and corrected to maintain balance. I might not be home to do the monitoring and feel comfortible about putting fish in until I am confident of the stability. I believe a bareier of some sort will provide me a shortcut to achieving this stability. I hearby volinteer to be the official forum guinypig for RaydonSeal.
      This product costs $159.00 for 5 gal. that covers 800 - 1000 sqft. and can be applied with a bug sprayer. Non toxic, non flamable, enviroment and fish safe.



      RadonSeal® Penetrating Concrete Sealer is deep-penetrating reactive concrete sealer that penetrates deep into concrete (up to 4"), reacts with lime and alkalis, forcefully expands inside capillaries, and hardens as an insoluble silicate mineral. (Silicates are the "binders" in concrete.)
      The many benefits of sealing your concrete with RadonSeal® Penetrating Concrete Sealer:

      Seals concrete against water seepage, water vapor.
      Reduces indoor humidity preventing the growth of molds and mildew, alleviates basement odors.
      Helps prevent the growth of molds, mildew, and musty odors.
      Strengthens concrete reducing concrete dusting, spalling, and cracking.
      Seals against efflorescence.
      Neutralizes alkalis, protects paint, thinset, epoxy coatings, etc. Acts as a concrete primer.
      Safe, Spray or Roll-On Application – Apply RadonSeal to your basement concrete using an airless sprayer, hand-pump "garden" sprayer, roller, or brush. RadonSeal is a waterborne concrete sealer – ZERO VOCs, no noxious fumes, non-toxic, nonflammable, and non-hazardous. The sealer absorbs inside the concrete leaving the surface slip resistant and paintable (does not change the appearance or profile of the concrete).
      Last edited by FRK; 03-03-2018 at 11:39 AM. Reason: sp correct

    Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •