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    Thread: How to remove Pond Armor from concrete for new sealant

    1. #1
      texmaster is offline Member
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      How to remove Pond Armor from concrete for new sealant

      Hi Folks,

      We've been putting pond armor in an upper pond for years but every 2 or 3 years it fails and it begins to leak. Now I'm going with a new product Pond2000 which they claim can last 10 years but I'm having a heck of a time removing the old layers of Pond Armor.

      The Koi are in the lower pond.



      I've tried sanding, wire brush, scraper, all met with limited success. I'm wondering if there is a solvent I can put on to remove it and get to the bare concrete.

      Here are some pics



      Last edited by texmaster; 02-25-2018 at 06:24 PM.

    2. #2
      kevin32's Avatar
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      I would use a concrete
      grinder. It will gum off and you can remove the gum up with a cinder block. However I'm not sure the new stuff will be much better.

    3. #3
      Hugomizz is offline Senior Member
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      When intemoved mine it broke off in chucks, i pulled it off where i could then i got a power washer on it, messy job

    4. #4
      BWG is offline Senior Member
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      Looks like more of a concrete problem vs a coating problem. Concrete coatings are only as good as the concrete they are being applied to. All loose and soft concrete needs to be removed along with the old coating.

      Then the fun begins. The repair should be more extensive than just recoating with another rubber coating. Look up how pools are repaired by skim coating with new waterproof cement.
      Last edited by BWG; 02-25-2018 at 07:33 PM.

    5. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
      Looks like more of a concrete problem vs a coating problem. Concrete coatings are only as good as the concrete they are being applied to. All loose and soft concrete needs to be removed along with the old coating.

      Then the fun begins. The repair should be more extensive than just recoating with another rubber coating. Look up how pools are repaired by skim coating with new waterproof cement.
      I was going to do concrete and then thinset and then add the pond armor. Many felt this was much better than relying on the concrete to adhere to the pond armor

    6. #6
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      I would not suggest using any solvent, the chance of a residue is high. A bush hammer bit in a air hammer will remove the top surface of the the existing concrete and provide a suitable profile for an overlay. Plan on removing the top layer of concrete if you want the next layer to adhere.

    7. #7
      tf104 is offline Senior Member
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      Pond armor is a great product I think you are experiencing application error rather than product failure.
      This is going to be a big ugly job to remove it I would go to the rental yard and rent a sand blast pot and a large air compressor

    8. #8
      kevin32's Avatar
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      My co-worker applied pond armor over cinder block. The problem is cinder block has many loose pores. While it did work ok he even agreed doing a slurry coat of thinset would have been much better overall. I'm going the xypex route but might also apply pond armor also

    9. #9
      tf104 is offline Senior Member
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      My situation was similar all my walls had a lot of porosity bug holes we call them I used something similar to thin set over thinned it a bit and sprayed it on with a texture hopper I then back brushed it to really fill in all of the porosity. The next day I sprayed another coat but did not back brush, This left a very nice finish. I followed this with two coats of pond armor with additional coats and fiberglass mesh at skimmer ,pipe protrusions and cold joints.
      I do believe that pond armors coverage rates are very optimistic It takes a lot more product to achieve a sufficient coating.

    10. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by tf104 View Post
      My situation was similar all my walls had a lot of porosity bug holes we call them I used something similar to thin set over thinned it a bit and sprayed it on with a texture hopper I then back brushed it to really fill in all of the porosity. The next day I sprayed another coat but did not back brush, This left a very nice finish. I followed this with two coats of pond armor with additional coats and fiberglass mesh at skimmer ,pipe protrusions and cold joints.
      I do believe that pond armors coverage rates are very optimistic It takes a lot more product to achieve a sufficient coating.
      Yep that is the key. We often deal with cold joints when floating large floors . Fiberglass mesh does work well for the protrusions etc.. it all has to be done right or it fails and the product gets a bad rep

    11. #11
      tf104 is offline Senior Member
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      Well said I really don’t think of pond armor as a diy product there is a lot to a successful installation.

    12. #12
      malatu is offline Supporting Member
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      Each surface area you are working with doesn't look that large. If it were mine, I'd consider this: Mechanically clean the existing surface. I'm thinking a hand-held grinder would work if doing it yourself. Sandblasting by a contractor would be effective too, but might be over-kill. Then cut pieces of epdm liner to fit each of the surfaces you are trying to seal. You could adhere the epdm to the concrete with a variety of products. Also, I'd want any and all edges of the liner embedded in sealant before the seams were sealed. I'd seal the seams and corners with 3M 5200 underwater sealant. It's a bit pricey at $24 a tube, but in my opinion, this product is worth it. I'd leave a 1/4 inch gap between the edges of the epdm so the 3m sealant adheres to both edges and dried sealant the edges are embedded into. I'd use the 3m to embed the edges of epdm before sealing the edges, if that makes sense.

      Your surfaces wouldn't have to perfect or even perfectly smooth, just solid.

    13. #13
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      Xypex'ed my pond and it has held up very well. BUT I did the blockwork, and where I put the very last block in on the top row in the corner I did a **** poor job and it does leak there. I am confident in xypex. Any concrete work I do from now on will have that added to it. If I could do it over again O would have added it to the mortar.
      "Those aren't poodles. They're Dobermans with afros."

    14. #14
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Grind all the loose stuff off and replaster over all the walls and re-waterproof using a professional.

      Garfield
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

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      Hugomizz is offline Senior Member
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      I personally think pond armor is a poor product

    16. #16
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      They are good products if used properly. None, I repeat NONE of them (DIY types) can handle negative gas or hydrostatic pressures. If you have water trapped behind the coating or seeping in from the outside through the concrete there is a good chance they will fail. Either by trapped air pushed by water into the coating backside or water being forced to the coating backside and causing bubbles. Sun shinning on the coating near and above the water line can create steam under the coating near the top of the tank if the concrete has trapped moisture also causing coating release.
      Last edited by BWG; 02-26-2018 at 08:48 PM.

    17. #17
      tf104 is offline Senior Member
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      pond armor worked great for my pond for eight years now and I would not hesitate to use it again,

    18. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
      They are good products if used properly. None, I repeat NONE of them (DIY types) can handle negative gas or hydrostatic pressures. If you have water trapped behind the coating or seeping in from the outside through the concrete there is a good chance they will fail. Either by trapped air pushed by water into the coating backside or water being forced to the coating backside and causing bubbles. Sun shinning on the coating near and above the water line can create steam under the coating near the top of the tank if the concrete has trapped moisture also causing coating release.
      Yes this is what the late norm Walsh told me also. I'm not saying it is the best product but it can work. This is why i mentioned a thinset coating as that would eliminate the problems mentioned. My co-worker had a slight leak from the fish sucking the pond armor off the walls. The algae sealed it though and it was fine. The cinder block was porous and had air gaps etc so it never truly adhered. We have been doing tike work for 18 years so have learned a thing or 2

    19. #19
      tf104 is offline Senior Member
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      I thought of something that might help the OP remove his old coating, pressure washer with a sand injection, still a messy job but less equipment required.

    20. #20
      kevin32's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by tf104 View Post
      I thought of something that might help the OP remove his old coating, pressure washer with a sand injection, still a messy job but less equipment required.
      I would shield the upper pond from flying debris still. I used just sand to clean my engine compartment on old truck. That **** flew all over in the shed and was a mess lol

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