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  • Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567
    Results 121 to 136 of 136

    Thread: Kohaku shimmies

    1. #121
      abuchi123's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      Seems shimmies are genetic. Low quality koi in hard water are more likely to get shimmies. Higher quality with better genetics/bloodline will be less likely to get shimmy in harder water..agree or do we disagree?
      There are environmental triggers for shimmy but the quality level of a fish has very little to do with it.

      Following your logic, supermodels should not get pimples.

    2. #122
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      Seems shimmies are genetic. Low quality koi in hard water are more likely to get shimmies. Higher quality with better genetics/bloodline will be less likely to get shimmy in harder water..agree or do we disagree?
      Would this be for all types of shimmies or just one?
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    3. #123
      inazuma28 is offline Senior Member
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      I have soft water ( less than 20 gh, kh of about 80-120) And unfortunately i dont have the dough for an rdf so i do often have suspended particulates. Ive only had one type of shimi happen in my pond as far as I know.vThey were not as deep as sumi nor did they look like sumi. They looked more like particles in the scale. Unfortunately they do seem to expand with time. My only fish at the moment with a shimi is definitely on the higher end in terms of quality. It was bred by the late Ikarashi. Russell, could you tell us what you've seen in terms of "type of shimis"? You've seen more fish than probably 99% of all hobbiests and your experience is an invaluable resource.

    4. #124
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      Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn View Post
      Can you explain this and provide your experience for your belief?
      read it on a pond life forum and was just saying what they said and was wondering what others thoughts were. I dont have experience with koi like the breeders etc. I would like to find out more on what to do about shimmies in the future. they are quite an eye sore to me.

    5. #125
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      Would this be for all types of shimmies or just one?
      didnt know there were different types on shimmies. what are different kind of shimmies and i also wonder where the term shimmies came from in the first place

    6. #126
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      read it on a pond life forum and was just saying what they said and was wondering what others thoughts were. I dont have experience with koi like the breeders etc. I would like to find out more on what to do about shimmies in the future. they are quite an eye sore to me.
      I'm in that camp that believes if you are espousing someone else's belief, it is the courteous thing to give them credit for saying it. That is why I asked what your experience was.
      Discussing a subject that is important to many but has little scientific data to rely on makes it important to have practical experience IMO. Some of us have actually seen improvements and deterioration with varying parameters and this may be of value to members.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

      I'll say something when I feel I have something worth saying. I'm not a fan of flapping my lips just because they are there.

    7. #127
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      Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn View Post
      I'm in that camp that believes if you are espousing someone else's belief, it is the courteous thing to give them credit for saying it. That is why I asked what your experience was.
      Discussing a subject that is important to many but has little scientific data to rely on makes it important to have practical experience IMO. Some of us have actually seen improvements and deterioration with varying parameters and this may be of value to members.
      Correct. I should have pulled the info and then sourced where the info came from. At least there is hope that shimmies can improve. Im curious as to what parameters varied? ph or gh? less tds in the water?

    8. #128
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      Quote Originally Posted by abuchi123 View Post
      There are environmental triggers for shimmy but the quality level of a fish has very little to do with it.

      Following your logic, supermodels should not get pimples.
      good point. they can just edit the pics though lol

    9. #129
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      Correct. I should have pulled the info and then sourced where the info came from. At least there is hope that shimmies can improve. Im curious as to what parameters varied? ph or gh? less tds in the water?
      I'm loathe to quote myself but I did address parameters in this thread numerous times. Posts 8, 12, 53 and so forth. Again, those are based on my experience.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

      I'll say something when I feel I have something worth saying. I'm not a fan of flapping my lips just because they are there.

    10. #130
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    11. #131
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      Interesting but this does not reflect my experience.
      I have a good friend that essentially had every Kohaku in his pond develop shimi, at some point. Over the years, he's probably had over 20 different breeders' Kohaku. He deliberately sought out many different breeders' koi to see if the situation improved.
      He invested in a small RO system and saw good results. RO isn't for everyone but for those serious about showing, it can be very helpful if the source water is not advantageous.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

      I'll say something when I feel I have something worth saying. I'm not a fan of flapping my lips just because they are there.

    12. #132
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      didnt know there were different types on shimmies. what are different kind of shimmies and i also wonder where the term shimmies came from in the first place
      Shimi = japanese.

    13. #133
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      So it seems if we get a black spot on a kohaku we call it a shimmie. A shimmie might be easy to remove but a true black pigment is not really a shimmie at all? I had a few tosai kohaku turn into sanke and obviosly those arent shimmies

    14. #134
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      So it seems if we get a black spot on a kohaku we call it a shimmie. A shimmie might be easy to remove but a true black pigment is not really a shimmie at all? I had a few tosai kohaku turn into sanke and obviosly those arent shimmies
      Well, yeah. That is why I posted that shimi and sumi behave very differently.
      Still learning as I go but y'all can call me Marilyn

      I'll say something when I feel I have something worth saying. I'm not a fan of flapping my lips just because they are there.

    15. #135
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      This isn't regarding a Kohaku, but I purchased a tosai Chagoi a year ago that had a couple shimi. This winter the number increased substantially. There were areas on the fins that looked more like streaks, like on a Sanke but they easily peeled off.

      The past week this fish has been kept in a dark garage at 78F, and when I pulled it out today, mostly all of the shimi were gone to my surprise. The overall color had also changed from a golden-brown, to more of a dark-dark chocolate brown. The netting is really pronounced now too.

      Btw I also have a Soragoi in here that went from light-blue to dark-grey.
      Our water is hard

    16. #136
      Rob Forbis is offline Senior Member
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      I think we should appreciate what Marilyn is saying. Basically that without scientific support the best we can do is to rely upon the experience of our fellow koi keepers.

      Koi keeping is way more mythology than science, the fact is that the kichi do not like facts. For example I have posted H&E microscope sections of koi skin and scale that reveal features that no one has noted or remarked upon in any koi publication ever (like the epidermis wrapping the scale tip). Two of the top academics praised them as the best they had ever seen. From KP, KB, even a seminar presentation from the kichi: nothing. Same when I posted Gur’s amazing micrographs of gin rin and metallic iridophores.


      As far as defining a shimi, as Russ says, there are several black dots that are sometimes referred to as shimi. For some a shimi only appears on kohaku and only on the beni, it is above the scale and sometimes can be flicked away with a thumbnail. This shimi some call “thumbnail shimi”. Some regard it as shimi if on a kohaku the black dot is below the scale and therefore less assessable. This, I have heard called, “shimi in the scale”. Of course it is in the skin beneath the scale. If the black dot on a kohaku is on the shiro some regard it as shimi others do not. And there are many graduations of that lead to the previous post where even chagoi (and other koi that express black) are regarded as having shimi.
      Last edited by Rob Forbis; 02-22-2018 at 11:19 AM.

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