• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
    Results 21 to 38 of 38

    Thread: Advice needed - one koi dead

    1. #21
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
      is getting cold...
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Location
      Essex, UK
      Posts
      328
      Video below...

      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    2. #22
      KoiRun's Avatar
      KoiRun is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2015
      Location
      Mississauga, Ontario
      Posts
      1,542
      Thanks for the video. Looks like normal fish behaviour to me. All have come up to eat. No big emergency here. What I do see (besides a cute dog in the background) is that your water looks thick. You can see a layer of fatty acids on the surface and the bubbles forming from this layer stays intact. This means there is a lot of dissolved organics (DOCs) in the water. Parasites (bacterial and protozoans) can and will survive without a host longer in waters high in organics. I also see a lot of faeces on the bottom and in time will dissolve and add to DOCs. I suggest you continue your regular water changes and cut way back on your feeding or completely stop feeding for a few days. Vacuum the bottom daily if you can. I also see that water current is lacking, but perhaps you cut this off in order to take a better video. I've ofter heard that over-feeding is the number one cause of fish death and there are a lot of scientific explanations for this.

    3. #23
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
      is getting cold...
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Location
      Essex, UK
      Posts
      328
      I check the TDS levels - not sure on whether the DOC levels are related or not, but the TDS level is 310 ppm, i don't know how to measure DOC levels.. We have extremely hard water here and thats about the average. The bubbles are from too much dechlorinator I'm afraid, it's cleared today with more water added. There's no fish poo on the bottom, I think that's the liner showing through the green covering on it, where I've vacuumed previously - the liner is brown and also there were a couple of slices of garlic in there, which I feed once a week.. I had a closer look this morning just to check.

      The water flow is an issue I think, I need to rearrange the pumps in the pond.

      The only time I see the oily film is when I'm feeding - the saki hikari tends to leave oily trails when i put pellets in. The rest is reflections and humidity.

      Here's a video from 15 mins ago on the Arlo.

      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    4. #24
      montwila's Avatar
      montwila is offline Supporting Member ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2009
      Location
      Auburn, WA.
      Posts
      2,249
      I have to agree with Koirun.

      Your water does look thick as he describes. Why would the dechlore cause bubbles? It should dissolve readily into the water. This says to me that there is a film on the surface of the water if it does not dissolve.

      Even the video has a reflection (as it probably would with that lighting) but the reflection does not change going from sky back lighting to under the pond's cover as background lighting. With my eyes in most ponds the fish become more clear or fade depending upon the reflection based on the back ground that the light is reflecting off of. I do not see this change as the fish swim "out from under" the cover in that video.

      As he suggests: stop feeding and see if the entire herd perks up some what. I think your water is in the 60's *F but the fish look "slow" to me as if the water were in the high 50's. However they are larger fish and I have not seen them feeding except in this one video. You have also posted the amount you feed and I have thought (although not posted) that you may be pushing the food. Try backing off and see if the fish become more aggressive to the food.

      In my indoor tank I have "many" fish I am growing out and I add fish every few weeks. Sometimes the ones that eat the most are the ones that end up with health issues. Just as noted above they also tend to be some of the most skittish fish from each "group" I add to the tank. Nothing in this thread seems to stand out except you say multiple fish are not eating as normal. I would start with that. It costs nothing to back off on the food for a week.

      Good Luck

    5. #25
      audioenvy is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2016
      Location
      Utah
      Posts
      697
      Is the water always that calm or just for the photos? (Not saying it's necessarily an issue--just wondering.)

    6. #26
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
      is getting cold...
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Location
      Essex, UK
      Posts
      328
      Ok I will cut back on the feeding, let’s see how it goes. I’ve already started doing so since yesterday. Too much dechlorinator can cause a bit of foam, maybe it’s the brands available here in the UK, but it has been noted as an issue by many folk. I added more water today and it has subsided.

      In the past 7 days, a total of 3,000 Gallons of water has been changed and generally I change about 1,000 to 1,500 gallons a week - surely this would remove a lot of the DOC’s?
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    7. #27
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
      is getting cold...
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Location
      Essex, UK
      Posts
      328
      Quote Originally Posted by audioenvy View Post
      Is the water always that calm or just for the photos? (Not saying it's necessarily an issue--just wondering.)
      The pond is covered, so generally speaking it is pretty calm, in the Summer I have a water blade that churns it up more and helps the flow of water, I didn’t plan ahead or think about it being off in the winter.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    8. #28
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
      is getting cold...
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Location
      Essex, UK
      Posts
      328
      Forgot to add, please remember that the humidity is like steam under the covers, so it will look more like the water is cloudy in the video, even with the bits that are not showing reflections.

      The guy that was out at the weekend commented that the water clarity was very good, we had most of the covers off to get some of the Koi out to scrape and scope.

      Hereís the night view that makes this a bit easier to see:

      Last edited by Essex Koi; 02-14-2018 at 04:28 PM.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    9. #29
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
      is Garfield is my name DIY is my
      game
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Durban South Africa
      Posts
      1,100
      Maybe the Seachem is not doing the job, the ratio/ dose added is not sufficient to neutralize the chlorine.

      Compare the dosage suggested for the 30% volume you are dumping.

      Garfield
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    10. #30
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
      is getting cold...
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Location
      Essex, UK
      Posts
      328
      I’ve stopped using the Seachem as it’s the only variable that changed when the Koi died and some of the others started acting funny. When I was using it, I did measure the Seachem to the amount of water being changed and it was fine. I’ve checked chlorine levels and none showing.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    11. #31
      KoiRun's Avatar
      KoiRun is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2015
      Location
      Mississauga, Ontario
      Posts
      1,542
      Quote Originally Posted by Essex Koi View Post
      I check the TDS levels - not sure on whether the DOC levels are related or not, but the TDS level is 310 ppm, i don't know how to measure DOC levels..
      I've never had luck trying to gauge DOC levels with TDS meter. I did an experiment where I put koi poop in a jar with pond water and I did observe TDS rise over time, like, over several days. In a pond environment several factors come in to play that takes away and put back ions such as, varying water changes, amount of food, bacterial/bug/algae growth (and death) etc. that unless you are able to change just one variable you will not be able to detect any interpretable change in TDS. I think it's a fun tool though, cheap and no calibration required. I've even tried experiments on how fast oxidizers like PP and chlorine is used up. It works but is time consuming and does not have the accuracy level that I'm after. I've heard ORP is a good measuring tool - but I hate calibrating stuff. Now I've stuck with curmudgeon's way of measuring DOC which is "child you have learn to read the water, the way it looks, the way it smells" "yes master-sun." LOL. In a way I'm getting the hang of it (barely).

      But I'm a numbers guy (still). I'm gonna start counting bubbles (kidding). What I find useful for me is measuring how much foam is stuck in my skimmer by the area on how much surface area the foam takes up (oh by the way I think your skimmer is not working). For example, 8/10 being when my fish were spawning and 0/10 being now when I am feeding very little (the pond is almost sterile and the water is probably drinkable).

      I can think of another method which is by using a turbidity meter such as this:
      https://www.amazon.ca/Sper-Scientifi...urbidity+meter
      Anybody has any experience with these? Or I'm I just going to waste my money. I know it's not a direct measurement of DOC but would come close. It also looks like it's very easy to calibrate. Toy people. Steve/Rich?
      Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. ---- Marthe Troly-Curtin



    12. #32
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is online now Administrator ~ WWKC Treasurer
      is usually here but if not I'm
      probably off flying
       
      Feeling:
      Piratey
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2007
      Location
      Poulsbo, WA
      Posts
      26,177
      Quote Originally Posted by KoiRun View Post
      I've never had luck trying to gauge DOC levels with TDS meter. I did an experiment where I put koi poop in a jar with pond water and I did observe TDS rise over time, like, over several days. In a pond environment several factors come in to play that takes away and put back ions such as, varying water changes, amount of food, bacterial/bug/algae growth (and death) etc. that unless you are able to change just one variable you will not be able to detect any interpretable change in TDS. I think it's a fun tool though, cheap and no calibration required. I've even tried experiments on how fast oxidizers like PP and chlorine is used up. It works but is time consuming and does not have the accuracy level that I'm after. I've heard ORP is a good measuring tool - but I hate calibrating stuff. Now I've stuck with curmudgeon's way of measuring DOC which is "child you have learn to read the water, the way it looks, the way it smells" "yes master-sun." LOL. In a way I'm getting the hang of it (barely).

      But I'm a numbers guy (still). I'm gonna start counting bubbles (kidding). What I find useful for me is measuring how much foam is stuck in my skimmer by the area on how much surface area the foam takes up (oh by the way I think your skimmer is not working). For example, 8/10 being when my fish were spawning and 0/10 being now when I am feeding very little (the pond is almost sterile and the water is probably drinkable).

      I can think of another method which is by using a turbidity meter such as this:
      https://www.amazon.ca/Sper-Scientifi...urbidity+meter
      Anybody has any experience with these? Or I'm I just going to waste my money. I know it's not a direct measurement of DOC but would come close. It also looks like it's very easy to calibrate. Toy people. Steve/Rich?
      Might be a good discussion for a new thread. Stephen sent me a Martini MI-415 that I haven't had a chance to use but I'd be happy to
      try and get it up and running to help.
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

      "It is far better to be alone, than to be in bad company." --George Washington

    13. #33
      RichToyBox's Avatar
      RichToyBox is offline Administrator ~ WWKC BOD ~
      Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Awesome
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Sandston, VA
      Posts
      13,383
      I don't know if the turbidity meter would be of any value when it comes to trying to assess DOC's or not. DOC's are dissolved organic compounds/carbons (take your pick) as all organic compounds are carbon bearing molecules. The key word dissolved. When I look at the turbidity meter, it states "Turbidity Meter- Turbidity (undissolved solids)... ie undissolved is the key word for that meter. It will measure the amount of algae, ultra fine solids/precipitates that have not settled out, causing cloudiness to the water. I have no idea what kind of numbers you might find in koi ponds, but would expect high variability from pond to pond, with some ponds running ozone being ultra clear, and some with minimal filtration and no ozone/uv/RDF.... being very cloudy. It would be interesting, though I am not sure that it would translate into a number that would indicate healthy, just pretty.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    14. #34
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
      is getting cold...
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Location
      Essex, UK
      Posts
      328
      The skimmer does block easily, I try to clean it out often, if I don’t, it does reduce its effectiveness.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    15. #35
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
      is Garfield is my name DIY is my
      game
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Durban South Africa
      Posts
      1,100
      Quote Originally Posted by Essex Koi View Post
      Iíve stopped using the Seachem as itís the only variable that changed when the Koi died and some of the others started acting funny. When I was using it, I did measure the Seachem to the amount of water being changed and it was fine. Iíve checked chlorine levels and none showing.


      Do the fish seem more at home without it?

      Do you really think a 30% (If I recall ) water change is necessary for the number and size of your fish to the volume is necessary?

      Garfield
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    16. #36
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
      is getting cold...
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Location
      Essex, UK
      Posts
      328
      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      of water is
      Do the fish seem more at home without it?

      Do you really think a 30% (If I recall ) water change is necessary for the number and size of your fish to the volume is necessary?

      Garfield
      Not sure yet, Iíve only done one change since Iíve gone back to my previous dechlorinator and thatís only been 300 gallons so far. With regards to 30% change - itís a total figure per week made up of 3-4 smaller changes a week. I think it keeps the water quality good and the fish are generally perkier. It also controls my Nitrate levels, which are generally 20ppm or under, when Iíve cut back, Iíve seen them rise to 40ppm or more.
      Last edited by Essex Koi; 02-15-2018 at 03:51 AM.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    17. #37
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
      is getting cold...
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Location
      Essex, UK
      Posts
      328
      Ambient temp was up today and the sun was shining, so I took advantage of the respite from the cold and drizzle and removed the covers. I cleaned out the main Oase pump, which pulls in water from the skimmer as well as through the cage.

      As noted the skimmer hasn’t been performing as well as it should, after the clean out it seems better. I vacuumed the pond out and have some blanketweed issues. It was difficult to tell if the water is cloudy, seeing as I stirred up the pond quite a bit and some muck leaked out of the pump when I took it out.

      I’ve added some blanketweed treatment at a 25% dosage and added extra aeration, I’ll be doing a deep clean of the filters soon in anticipation of the crap that’ll gather.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    18. #38
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
      is getting cold...
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Location
      Essex, UK
      Posts
      328
      Well I reduced feeding down in the past 7 days by 50-60%, water clarity is better. Fish seem perky enough, eating much stronger at their twice daily feeds.

      With the ambient temp at 20f at the moment, I can’t change any water, although I did two x 500 gallon changes on sat / sun. Hoping it’ll be ok until the weekend again when the temps should go into the 30’s.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •