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    Thread: Advice needed - one koi dead

    1. #1
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      Advice needed - one koi dead

      Hi guys

      need some help. My smallest (and weakest) koi died this evening. He was always very timid and ate little getting frightened by the others, he didn't grow anywhere near as much as the others who came in approx. the same size / time. I noticed last night he was lethargic to an extent, but as he always hides and I have the covers on the pond - it was difficult to see. This evening I saw he was barely moving and whilst I started getting my hospital tank ready - he died.

      I'm worried that it may spread to the others, so I've got some pics and if anyone can advise on likely cause of death, it would be helpful. Pics below, also his body was a bit bloated looking before he died and there was also a very small red circle just behind his head and you can see the redness on his gill plates.

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      Last edited by Essex Koi; 02-09-2018 at 06:08 PM.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    2. #2
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      I don't see any signs of anything that could have been a problem. The eye that I can see does look a little bulged out, which could be a sign of a symptom like dropsy, as dropsy will also have the eye bulge, but I don't see the scales sticking out. You mentioned that it looked a little bloated which could be caused by a buildup of fluids in the body, caused by an internal infection. There are very few things that will transmit from one koi to another that will harm the rest, except parasites, which are fairly easily treated, and KHV, and the fish is not showing the signs of KHV. I would not be worried about the rest of the herd.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    3. #3
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      Who knows. Could be bacterial and the way to find that out is to open it up. Could be many things and an issue from birth. If the other koi are not showing any unusual behavior. I wouldn't worry about it.

    4. #4
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      The second image shows a small ulcer on the underneath of the Koi. My Chagoi - the biggest Koi in the pond is acting a bit sluggish and eating less - about 50-60% of what he normally eats. He’s flashed a couple of times over the past 5-6 days and I’ve been watching him closely, I can’t see any marks on him or other distress behaviour.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    5. #5
      audioenvy is offline Supporting Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Essex Koi View Post
      The second image shows a small ulcer on the underneath of the Koi.
      Can you circle it? All I see is what looks like a female anus to these untrained eyes.

    6. #6
      OCkoiFan's Avatar
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      What is the last time you added koi and treat them?
      I learned hard four years ago after continued loose a few koi
      I would find one acting lethargic for a day or two then died and another I lost 3 total
      No sign of flashing, etc
      That season I added 12 koi from 3 dealers without any treatment
      Finally had one scraped and scope so we found Fluke.
      Lucky they were in my qtank but not main pond at the time
      M.Nguyen


    7. #7
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      The behavior sounds genetic, or trauma damage at an early age. it just took time to kill it.
      "Those aren't poodles. They're Dobermans with afros."

    8. #8
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by OCkoiFan View Post
      What is the last time you added koi and treat them?
      I learned hard four years ago after continued loose a few koi
      I would find one acting lethargic for a day or two then died and another I lost 3 total
      No sign of flashing, etc
      That season I added 12 koi from 3 dealers without any treatment
      Finally had one scraped and scope so we found Fluke.
      Lucky they were in my qtank but not main pond at the time
      Last time I added any fish was in September.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    9. #9
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      I have an experienced guy coming round this afternoon to check the fish, heís a consultant that works around my area and should be able to help.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    10. #10
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      Had the consultation this afternoon and no sign of any parasites and he checked the dead koi and there was nothing obvious to see. He puts it down to some kind of system failure with it being a weaker fish.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    11. #11
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      Open the gills. The parasite often leaves the host when the host dies........Not all parasites are created equal.
      Last edited by Blammo; 02-10-2018 at 04:45 PM.
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    12. #12
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      We did open the gills, no sign of flukes, etc - all healthy, no parasites and no sign of damage. Internals didnít show any sign of infection either. Also scoped two other Koi in the pond with nothing significant.

      The consultant did say that some parasites drop off when the fish dies, but thereís usually still signs theyíve been there due to secondary bacterial infections, etc - but nothing found.
      Last edited by Essex Koi; 02-10-2018 at 06:16 PM.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    13. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by Essex Koi View Post
      We did open the gills, no sign of flukes, etc - all healthy, no parasites and no sign of damage. Internals didnít show any sign of infection either. Also scoped two other Koi in the pond with nothing significant.

      The consultant did say that some parasites drop off when the fish dies, but thereís usually still signs theyíve been there due to secondary bacterial infections, etc - but nothing found.
      The very word "consultant" scares me..... but just keep an eye on the others, lay down on feed for a few, days and make sure the air/water is churning. Chit happens. I've had thousands of koi. I call 5 %- realistic. You buy 100 young koi, even with Q and serious care, a month or three later you'll be doing good to have 90 or so.Same with orchid seedlings, chickens, litters of dogs etc. It's life. Be persistent and go sit by the pond a few times a day.Neglect is the #1 cause of mortality in the pet world.
      Last edited by Blammo; 02-10-2018 at 06:49 PM.
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      "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."
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      "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
      - Bertrand Russell

      "Untouched by the breath of God, unrestricted by human conscience, both capitalism and socialism are repulsive."
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    14. #14
      Blammo's Avatar
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      I just had a flash ! Community Organizer. Paid consultant. Digg ?
      PURA VIDA
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    15. #15
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      The guy that came out has been keeping Koi for forty years, his dad owned a Koi shop too until he passed away. He’s worked as an engineer until last year when he was made redundant. He’s also secretary of my local Koi club and breeds koi. Consultant sounds about right, I can’t call him a vet.

      I change about 30% water a week, Pond is heated and currently at 68f with plenty of aeration going in. I feed by hand and usually spend 20 mins in the morning and 30 mins in the evening doing this, plus one afternoon feed time that’s about 15 mins.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    16. #16
      GloriaL's Avatar
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      What are your pond water parameters? pH, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates. Always check your water first.
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    17. #17
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      I would also have to second (or third) the genetics of the fish. Sounds like a "high stressed" fish as some always are. This IMHO shortens their life span greatly.

      I do not see the ulcer your are referring to. Like the other poster I see the vent in the second picture only. I also a lot of bubbles. This looks like excessive slime coat to me. Why I do not know.

      Normally I would have thought there might have been some pink near the base of the fins (capillaries swelling) if the redness in the cheek was the start of an ulcer.

      Possibly poor handling or trauma as mentioned also. If all organs looked normal on a necropsy then probably a heart attach due to the self induced stress.

      Sorry for your lose.

    18. #18
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      Yes sorry, there was a very small ulcer on the other side, it’s not in that image - looked like a scrape at some point. My only worry at the moment is that two other koi are off their food considerably. My biggest chagoi is eating less than 40-50% of his usual and acting lethargic. He was scraped and scoped at the weekend and also checked thoroughly with nothing to show for it.

      This afternoon I had a think about it and checked my daily records. From the 2nd of February I changed over to using Seachem as my main dechlorinator - that’s the only thing that has changed in the past few months - maybe the Koi don’t like the change.

      Failing that, the only other thing I can think of is internal infections.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

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      Answer the question re water parameters.
      Can you provide a video of feeding time?

    20. #20
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      Water parameters are perfect with 0 ammonia / 0 Nitrite, nitrate at 20ppm and ph at 8.0. Itís the first thing I checked and continuously check. Video is possible, Iíll try and do over the next day.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

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