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    Thread: Koi dying in my frozen pond

    1. #21
      kimini is online now Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by MovingTarget View Post
      ... I would be really worried about getting a letter from the HOA...
      With that size yard and open land, I thought that's where people go to get out from under HOAs!
      Last edited by kimini; 02-06-2018 at 03:36 PM.

    2. #22
      ladyfish is offline Senior Member
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      Koi dying in my frozen pond

      I hope you donít have the aerator all the way to the bottom of the pond. Youíre stirring up the bottom where itís warmer with the colder water. If you do have it all the way down to the bottom, I would suggest pulling the aerator up some.
      May the Best You've Seen Be the Worst You See.

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    3. #23
      MovingTarget is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by ladyfish View Post
      I hope you don’t have the aerator all the way to the bottom of the pond. You’re stirring up the bottom where it’s warmer with the colder water. If you do have it all the way down to the bottom, I would suggest pulling the aerator up some.
      Well it is the bottom drain so it is on the bottom and I can't move it

    4. #24
      MovingTarget is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
      Koiphen member malatu put high density foam sheets on the surface this season with good results. Cut them into circles and painted to make more attractive.

      For your air pump put a tee into the line after the pump and place a valve on it. Open the valve a little to bleed off air. This will reduce air flow to the pond and reduce back pressure on the pump and extend its life.
      Good call on the tee. I will do that.

    5. #25
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      I have heard of similar things being done and being very successful. While this can be a very good idea, just make sure if you do use the method, that the paint and the foam are non-toxic! It's an obvious point, but something someone may not look into at least for the foam, believing it's a solid and won't leach. If your water is on the acidic side or even on the basic side, chemicals can leach out, causing harm to the fish. I'd also be more worried about the paint, possibly flaking off and the fish ingesting it. I prefer stuff not touching my water. That is also one reason I moved away from treated wood, to an aluminum structure.


      Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
      Koiphen member malatu put high density foam sheets on the surface this season with good results. Cut them into circles and painted to make more attractive.

      For your air pump put a tee into the line after the pump and place a valve on it. Open the valve a little to bleed off air. This will reduce air flow to the pond and reduce back pressure on the pump and extend its life.


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    6. #26
      BWG is online now Senior Member
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      Looked up MSDS info for high density expanded polystyrene foam such as what Lowes and HD sells. This type of material is also approved for food coolers.
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      Last edited by BWG; 02-06-2018 at 09:12 PM.

    7. #27
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      What I would do in your case is a combination of all pretty much what's been discussed with some additions. Cut 2" styrofoam sheets to lay on the surface to keep the heat in. Cut a hole over the bubbler. Protect this hole from freezing/wind chill by putting a tub over it. The tub will have a small hole where air can escape. I would also invest in an in-pond heater. For biological filtration you can buy an in-pond submersible filter and pump. If you can keep the temperature above 39F, biological filtration will occur. The styrofoam cover will keep your temperature more constant keeping fish and bacteria happy. Heck you can even feed a little if the fish comes up to eat.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l96nFXfjXpI
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0rgnq80NV4
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    8. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiRun View Post
      What I would do in your case is a combination of all pretty much what's been discussed with some additions. Cut 2" styrofoam sheets to lay on the surface to keep the heat in. Cut a hole over the bubbler. Protect this hole from freezing/wind chill by putting a tub over it. The tub will have a small hole where air can escape. I would also invest in an in-pond heater. For biological filtration you can buy an in-pond submersible filter and pump. If you can keep the temperature above 39F, biological filtration will occur. The styrofoam cover will keep your temperature more constant keeping fish and bacteria happy. Heck you can even feed a little if the fish comes up to eat.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l96nFXfjXpI
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0rgnq80NV4
      I like what I see there! I think Iím going to try that next year.

      I too have covered my pond for many years because of the below zero weather which we have been experiencing. I use 2x4s as a frame and overlay the frame with a fall net & tarp. I put in two degassers, a heater and aerator.


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    9. #29
      BWG is online now Senior Member
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      When I first seen the floating styrofoam sheets years ago didn't think it was a good idea. After seeing friends do it successfully multiple years and talk about not having to build, tear down and then store a cover convinced me.

    10. #30
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      Iím also in Colorado and used to have a frozen pond. This is my second year of covering the pond and it makes a huge difference. I havenít even had frost on my pond and the water temps have been mid 40ís.



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    11. #31
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by aztecdrms View Post
      I’m also in Colorado and used to have a frozen pond. This is my second year of covering the pond and it makes a huge difference. I haven’t even had frost on my pond and the water temps have been mid 40’s.



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      Did you lose any fish previously?
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    12. #32
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      Here is a link to a thread that might help you. http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...-and-Questions!


      Here is what I did per all the suggestions that folks gave me. I don't know what contributed the most to holding heat in the water; I suspect it's a combination of everything. They are:
      1. Heated space (basement of pump house) where all the equipment sits. It's holding 50*.
      2. Placed three sheets of 2" foam in the pond.
      3. Placed/fit 2" foam on top of savio skimmers
      4. Shut off air to the two bottom drain air domes
      5. Shut off both bottom drains
      5. Throttled down water circulation.

    13. #33
      MovingTarget is offline Senior Member
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      Update: I lost a few more fish or perhaps they were already dead and came to the top and I found them when a lot of the ice melted. I did turn down the aeration a lot and added a T to the air pump (it's loud but it's not like I'm outside much to notice).

      Here are the water parameters:
      PH 8.8
      KP 143.2
      GH 125.3
      Ammonia 0
      Nitrite 0
      Phosphate 0

      I know the PH is high but with the other parameters being low I don't think this is causing a problem. I do have exposed concrete and I'll add some hot tub hardener when I turn the pumps back on (next month?, we'll see).

      I feel like there is something more I could be doing but I'm thinking I'll continue as is for this winter and look at doing something with floating the 2" foam sheets for next year. Probably with a net or something on top so they don't blow away. I'll be looking for threads for others who've done this.

      I'm open to any other ideas, thanks for all the help!

      Sucks to have bought these guys small, watched them grow and got to know their personalities, only to lose them over the winter

    14. #34
      malatu is offline Supporting Member
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      It's my understanding that you turn off the air completely. At least that's what I did. I have jet's running that I turned upward to keep it from icing over in those areas.

      Also, you won't need any netting to keep the styrofoam from blowing away. It sticks to the water like glue. Plus when the pond does freeze, the ice holds them in place. If you wait till the pond just begins to freeze over, then place the foam on top of the ice, the ice below the foam melts within a day. The benefit is, you can strategically place the foam exactly where you want it and it stays put. Otherwise, currenst and wind will move your foam around until the ice forms.

      Quote Originally Posted by MovingTarget View Post
      Update: I lost a few more fish or perhaps they were already dead and came to the top and I found them when a lot of the ice melted. I did turn down the aeration a lot and added a T to the air pump (it's loud but it's not like I'm outside much to notice).

      Here are the water parameters:
      PH 8.8
      KP 143.2
      GH 125.3
      Ammonia 0
      Nitrite 0
      Phosphate 0

      I know the PH is high but with the other parameters being low I don't think this is causing a problem. I do have exposed concrete and I'll add some hot tub hardener when I turn the pumps back on (next month?, we'll see).

      I feel like there is something more I could be doing but I'm thinking I'll continue as is for this winter and look at doing something with floating the 2" foam sheets for next year. Probably with a net or something on top so they don't blow away. I'll be looking for threads for others who've done this.

      I'm open to any other ideas, thanks for all the help!

      Sucks to have bought these guys small, watched them grow and got to know their personalities, only to lose them over the winter

    15. #35
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      Sorry to hear this...hope Spring comes soon for you.

      We are at 20f at the moment with heavy snow expected over the next 5 days, Pond is still covered and being heated, checked temp this evening and it’s still at 68f.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    16. #36
      malatu is offline Supporting Member
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      We have sustained winds of 35 mph with gusts up to 60 mph today here in the mid Atlantic and north east states. I still have a couple of 4' diameter discs of 2" thick foam floating in the pond. They are not blowing away. The surface tension of the water holds the foam to the water very well.

    17. #37
      ademink's Avatar
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      Your pH is fine, by the way...as long as it stays consistent. Don't try to lower it.
      Andrea
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    18. #38
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      Quote Originally Posted by nguyenphilip View Post
      My pond is about 4.5 feet, my cover is just couple 2x4 and I'm using plastic sheet from lows or home depot for this year. I am planning to buy some better supply later this year to make it more heat friendly.
      Over cooling is bull
      I try to take my water as close to 33 degrees

    19. #39
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      Quote Originally Posted by RichToyBox View Post
      I am just guessing, but I suspect that something has changed with the water parameters. If the fish were lined up on the bottom, that is usually a sign of stasis, and they will stay in that condition until temperatures improve, unless there is something that stimulates movement, like trying to net them, a predator trying to get them, or a change in the water chemistry that makes the water uncomfortable, like a pH shift (usually a crash), or a build up in ammonia (ammonia burns). Recheck the parameters and be sure that they haven't changed.
      This is the best advice
      Change of something is most likely your problem

    20. #40
      ademink's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by tsippel View Post
      Over cooling is bull
      I try to take my water as close to 33 degrees
      I don’t try to take my water as close to 33į as possible… But I agree that in ponds our size, supercooling does not happen. I have checked the temperature at the top and bottom of my pond for several years with bottom drains and falls running and at the most it might vary by half a degree.
      Andrea
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