• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
    Results 1 to 20 of 49

    Thread: nitrates and koi health

    1. #1
      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
      is chillin
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2014
      Location
      Brentwood, ca up north
      Posts
      8,029

      nitrates and koi health

      I made a thread awhile back called truth about nitrates and do to some technical problem it got deleted on accident.

      Karl has stated in a sticky thread that high nitrates can lead to ulcers. I do feel nitrates at 40 ppm or less is important to long term health. I had about 80-120 ppm before and had ulcer problems 2 winters in a row. I've since improved filtration and have 20ppm now and my fish are doing well and super active even at lower water temps. we often check for ammonia and nitrites but nitrates is important as well.

      This is karls advice.

      Nitrate: "Some is always present". A trace is fine. More than that: do a water change. Nitrate is called the silent killer. It is usually not monitored very well by the average koi keeper. If the levels slowly become high due to lack of water changes it will cause ulcer disease and death. Symptoms are often called "dropsy". The most common reason for Nitrates to rise is lack of water changes.
      Last edited by kevin32; 01-11-2018 at 08:24 PM.

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    2. #2
      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
      is chillin
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2014
      Location
      Brentwood, ca up north
      Posts
      8,029
      i will add water changes or lack is probably the leading cause of higher levels. however I feel lack of biofiltration and also excessive docs lead to it also

    3. #3
      DragonFireSG is offline Senior Member
      is fat and well fed.
       
      Feeling:
      Geeky
       
      Join Date
      Jan 2015
      Location
      Singapore
      Posts
      824
      It takes a unique type of biofiltration to remove nitrates.

      My next pond will incorporate this as a primary bio stage in front of the showers in an attempt (or grand experiment) to see if I can make do with reduced water changes. It involves encouraging anammox type bacteria to grow in highly filtered, low oxygen beds aka the (in)famous biocenosis baskets.

      The output from the filters will be pumped directly into zakki showers and over a waterfall for reoxygenation.

      The chemical process is quite interesting, with ammonia being consumed and the end result N2 gas instead of nitrates.
      Rocket fuel - hydrazine is the shocking intermediary.

      Therein lies the catch. For these filters to work at their best, they need access to as much ammonia as they can get. Their effect on nitrates is relatively minimal.
      Last edited by DragonFireSG; 01-11-2018 at 08:59 PM.

    4. #4
      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
      is chillin
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2014
      Location
      Brentwood, ca up north
      Posts
      8,029
      yeah that is all beyond me. i just have the blue eco to a diy shower and have the highest fish load I've ever had and only show 20ppm nitrate at the most ever. showers do offgas ammonia so my theory is less ammonia=less nitrite= less nitrates.

      I change out about 20% weekly at best on a 1400 gallon intex

      although most are ammonia and nitrites are at 0 it all gets left at the end the nitrates which is difficult to remove. so less ammonia being processed leads to a better end on the nitrates.

      Im using a 40 liter air pump and also nothing to remove the foam as none is being produced. i had a diy fractionator on my other intex with a sieve and had daily foam and also about 80 ppm nitrates on it.
      Last edited by kevin32; 01-11-2018 at 09:07 PM.

    5. #5
      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
      is chillin
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2014
      Location
      Brentwood, ca up north
      Posts
      8,029
      there are 44 koi in there and only 20ppm nitrates and the water is pristine. other than the shower off-gasssing ammonia how in the world could i get 20 ppm nitrates?

      also my shower smells like a skunk but also the air exchange is very high and i have my water crashing over the media.
      Attached Images Attached Images  
      Last edited by kevin32; 01-11-2018 at 09:16 PM.

    6. #6
      OCkoiFan's Avatar
      OCkoiFan is offline Supporting Member
      is Mitchiesan-ninja’s
      feather rock
       
      Feeling:
      Amused
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2014
      Location
      Orange County, CA
      Posts
      5,306
      If you reduce the #of koi in half I will guarantee your nitrate will be much lesser
      M.Nguyen


    7. #7
      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
      is chillin
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2014
      Location
      Brentwood, ca up north
      Posts
      8,029
      Quote Originally Posted by OCkoiFan View Post
      If you reduce the #of koi in half I will guarantee your nitrate will be much lesser
      what fun would that be lol. Yeah i bet i could get down to 10 ppm with half the koi. regardless I doubt many have seen as low as 20 ppm or have even tested for it lol

    8. #8
      OCkoiFan's Avatar
      OCkoiFan is offline Supporting Member
      is Mitchiesan-ninja’s
      feather rock
       
      Feeling:
      Amused
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2014
      Location
      Orange County, CA
      Posts
      5,306
      I keep my nitrate under 10ppm almost off peak season
      Last time my nitrate level kinda unreadable so this is what I did
      Attached Images Attached Images  
      M.Nguyen


    9. #9
      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
      is chillin
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2014
      Location
      Brentwood, ca up north
      Posts
      8,029
      Quote Originally Posted by OCkoiFan View Post
      I keep my nitrate under 10ppm almost off peak season
      Last time my nitrate level kinda unreadable so this is what I did
      yep. keep it low homie. off peak is the best time to have low nitrates. Im just trying to let some know nitrates are important.
      Last edited by kevin32; 01-11-2018 at 09:47 PM.

    10. #10
      OCkoiFan's Avatar
      OCkoiFan is offline Supporting Member
      is Mitchiesan-ninja’s
      feather rock
       
      Feeling:
      Amused
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2014
      Location
      Orange County, CA
      Posts
      5,306
      Don’t you glad we out of the drought Kevin
      More waterchange without feeling guilty
      ahaha
      M.Nguyen


      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    11. #11
      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
      is chillin
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2014
      Location
      Brentwood, ca up north
      Posts
      8,029
      Quote Originally Posted by OCkoiFan View Post
      Don’t you glad we out of the drought Kevin
      More waterchange without feeling guilty
      ahaha
      Yeah but honestly ive used way less water with my small intex vs my 3800 gallon pond im redoing. Ive found 2.5 turnover rate and rdf has cut back alot.

    12. #12
      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
      is chillin
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2014
      Location
      Brentwood, ca up north
      Posts
      8,029
      we are know the term clear water is not always healthy water. you can have clear water but also excessive of nitrates as well.

    13. #13
      Doman71's Avatar
      Doman71 is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Location
      CA
      Posts
      191
      Dude, I admire your enthusiasm and 'contibutions', but I have to disagree with some of your theories on this topic.

    14. #14
      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
      is chillin
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2014
      Location
      Brentwood, ca up north
      Posts
      8,029
      Quote Originally Posted by Doman71 View Post
      Dude, I admire your enthusiasm and 'contibutions', but I have to disagree with some of your theories on this topic.
      not saying I'm right. but if u want to add to it feel free
      l don't get my feelings hurt

    15. #15
      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
      is chillin
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2014
      Location
      Brentwood, ca up north
      Posts
      8,029
      Quote Originally Posted by OCkoiFan View Post
      I keep my nitrate under 10ppm almost off peak season
      Last time my nitrate level kinda unreadable so this is what I did
      by unreadable you had 0 ppm or over 160ppm?

    16. #16
      audioenvy is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2016
      Location
      North Carolina
      Posts
      901
      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      by unreadable you had 0 ppm or over 160ppm?
      I think he is saying it was super high so he did a big water change.

    17. #17
      Doman71's Avatar
      Doman71 is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Location
      CA
      Posts
      191
      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      not saying I'm right. but if u want to add to it feel free
      l don't get my feelings hurt
      One of your theory about ammonia off-gassing through your diy tower... I believe this discussion invalidated it.
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ng-off-ammonia

      You cited that a lack of water changes causes high nitrate, where I would contend that water change is for controlling nitrate by removing and diluting(not the cause). Nor is it due to lack of biofiltration, because only a healthy biofilter can convert ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate. Lack of biofiltration will fall behind on this conversion and you won't see nitrate. Therefore it's an abundant of biofiltration (providing that ammonia/nitrite, bicarbonate, oxygen, etc. are available) that promotes nitrate.

      You also gave a lot of credit to your RDF, which I am also in agreement, but it has to be clarified that it's a mechanical filter, and a very good one at that. Its credit is its ability to remove most of the pollutants(leaves, bugs, poop, etc), therefore minimizing the source for ammonia, which is where the cycle begins.

      That's just my .o5 cents.
      Last edited by Doman71; 01-11-2018 at 11:52 PM.

    18. #18
      OCkoiFan's Avatar
      OCkoiFan is offline Supporting Member
      is Mitchiesan-ninja’s
      feather rock
       
      Feeling:
      Amused
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2014
      Location
      Orange County, CA
      Posts
      5,306
      Quote Originally Posted by audioenvy View Post
      I think he is saying it was super high so he did a big water change.
      Normal routine weekly maintenance
      And sudden decide to test the water one a blue moon
      So surprised with sky rocket nitrate level so I did 90%
      Believe or not after waterchange the level did not drop much still near 100ppm
      I scratched my head on that on
      So now I do bigger waterchange and more frequent
      M.Nguyen


    19. #19
      audioenvy is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2016
      Location
      North Carolina
      Posts
      901
      Quote Originally Posted by OCkoiFan View Post
      Normal routine weekly maintenance
      Believe or not after waterchange the level did not drop much still near 100ppm
      I've had the same exact thing happen with my QT tank. I can't figure out why. Makes me wonder if nitrates get caught in the media or something. Yeah that makes no sense.

    20. #20
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is offline Administrator ~ WWKC President
      ~ WWKC Treasurer
      is sorry otters exist
       
      Feeling:
      Annoyed
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2007
      Location
      Poulsbo, WA
      Posts
      32,942
      I don't claim to know anything about the science behind it all but all I can say is my 7 or so 20"+ fish in about 4k gallons
      with a shower and changing 25 gallons of water every 5 hours on a timer leaves me with 0 nitrates or at least the test
      is bright yellow every time.
      Just fwiw...
      --Steve



      Koiphen 2021 Koi Person of the Year!

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •