Yes, that helps! See my next post...
Yes, that helps! See my next post...
My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois
More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org
Thank you. I am also concerned about the pipes that go through the footing, and the ones that lay under the liner of the pond, although the pipes that go under the footing are encased in concrete for a distance of about 2 feet. I am considering whether it would be best to simply pour 2-4 inches of concrete over the entire bottom of the pond, and have it sloped the way I want it, before I put in the liner. It seems to me that would protect all the pipes… What do you all think about that idea?
My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois
More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org
If you can come up with the small chipped limestone we talked about earlier in your post it will work very well in bedding your pipe and for a base for your liner. Just make sure if you use it under the linear you have a quality underlayment under the linear. I ended up with about 6” of this stone under my poured floor. Also this stuff is very easy to level out, very nice to work with.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
On past construction projects at work sometimes when more stability was needed cement stabilized sand was specified by the engineer. It flowed easily to fill voids and around things. The cement allowed a degree of setting up. It was a mix of sand and a small amount of Portland cement.
What caught my eye was this photo.
It was the pipe in the puddle that I was worrying about. Differential settlement is the problem, if you can get good support of the bottom of all those pipes within the confines of the pond, I don't think you need the concrete slab, but without being able to observe conditions, I can't say for sure. The old timers would call this a heel test: If you stand on one foot with your heel directly over the pipe, does it deflect? If so, you should really take steps to protect it from settlement. If you used schedule 40 pipe I wouldn't worry about the pipe embedded in the footing, or where the pipe exits out of the footing toward the house. It is the pipe on the pond side of the footing within a foot or so of the footing where a crack or break could occur if the pipe is forced down from the water pressure. It is this area (the pond side of the footing) you need to make sure the pipes have very good compaction under them. A lean concrete described by BWG is commonly used as a "no compaction pipe backfill" in such a situation.
Good Luck, your making rapid progress.
Well, bit of a setback. Don’t test your pipes unless you really want to know. Cause if you test them and find out that two of your three bottom drain lines leak, it can make a person lose a little sleep!
The one I mentioned earlier is fixed now. We replaced the leaky coupling. Was not easy, but it is done and now that line tested out fine! Yes.
The other leaky line failed the static water test three times...in 12 hours the water level in the 4” standpipe pipe would fall about 1.5”. When I shifted to an air test, hoping water was just moving in the line with air bubbles, it also lost air pressure. We could not find the fitting or place leaking in spite of using soapy water. We eventually started cutting the pipe in two accessible places and tested each section to see which part was keaking. Turned out to be one of the fittings under the footing, which is concrete 2’ wide. (Test lines BEFORE you pour). Turned out the best way to replace the line was to hook onto the BD line about 2’ away, then run a whole new line just over the top of the footing and through the wall. We will then raise the bottom near the wall enough to cover the pipe. A disappointing solution but better than taking a chance on an unknown leak under the pond wall and liner, and better than abandoning the BD altogether.
All the rerturn lines tested fine, happily. Unfortunately the work in the BD lines had to be done in 6” of wet, mushy clay. We have finished the replacement line. Tomorrow we will test it, and assuming it is ok, we will be close to ready for the liner. Have to find a way to grade the bottom of the pond first. The waterfall basin is done and today we filled the concrete blocks with concrete.
Last edited by Windsong Acres; 04-01-2018 at 07:13 AM.
My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois
More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org
I keep getting “upload of file failed” messages when I try to upload pictures. Is there something wrong on my end, or anything else I could do differently? I wanted to share a couple of pictures taken recently.
My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois
More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org
I have not heard of anything wrong and just uploaded a pic and didn't have a problem.
You could email them to me if you want: steve@icu2collectibles.com
One pic uploaded this time...shows how we had to put the new replacement line through the wall above the others. Have not tested it yet but think it should be supported with concrete...?
My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois
More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org
Imagine the pipe as a diving board at a swimming pool. Where the pipe is laying on the footing and embedded in the wall it will not settle and is "fixed" just like one end of a diving board. If you stand on the new elbows as it is now the pipe must support your entire weight by bending, just like standing on the end of the diving board. If you weigh enough, and move far enough away from the footing, the pipe or elbow will split and fail. The unknowns are how much help will the soil under the pipe leading to the bottom drain provide to resist the bending forces. That is the risk you run by not supporting the pipes so it will take the load of the pond water.
It is the force from differential settlement of the pipe that is the danger. Water weights about 62 lbs/cubic foot, so if you are 6' tall you would need to weight 372 lbs to be equal to the weight on that pipe when there is 6' of water above it. Now consider there are a 372 lbs man standing on that pipe every foot of its length. The pipe embedded in the wall can't move, it is fixed into position, but the pipe in the trenches in the floor will likely move down some. Now it will not be forced to move down as far as my example of a diving board, but it will surely be forced to move some from those same bending forces. The risk will be the strength of the newly glued connections, the new elbows, and the pipe itself that must resist the bending loads.
So I would highly recommend you remove enough of the newly placed backfill under that pipe, and any others you have concern about, and replace all of the backfill with a lean concrete mix. The concrete backfill will help prevent the pipe from moving down from the 372 lbs per foot of water weight by spreading that load to a greater width. The concrete above the pipe really will not have much help other than keeping the pond smooth. It is the support of the bottom of the pipes that is needed.
Good Luck, it is going to be a great pond.
My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois
More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org
Got the liner installed yesterday! Bottom drains are installed too. Skimmer was set and mortared in place the day before, and we also encased the pipes under the pond floor in concrete. Then, because the clay bottom was like walking in peanut butter, we added the quick drying concrete mix from Home Depot (red bags) to absorb it out of the water and stiffen up the Clay. We left it overnight and it worked wonders.
I want to give a special thank you to Mike Swanson at Koi Acres, who has spent a LOT of time talking through many issues on the pond with me. We have discussed the excellent ideas put forward here on Koiphen in depth, and tried to figure out the most workable alternatives when I was “stuck in the mud” or torn between different good approaches. Mike is an excellent pond installer and a cheerful, hard worker...he has installed both of my RDFs, and even though I decided to do this project myself (with just a local excavator), he cheerfully talked me through all kinds of challenges.
Steve Jonelli also has been very helpful on this project “behind the scenes” and I want to take this moment to thank him too. He is both a trusted vendor and someone with a great deal of wisdom and experience to offer.
There are many good dealers, installers, and knowledgeable people on Koiphen, but since these two went above and beyond on this major project with me, I wanted to publically thank them.
It is not over yet...but I am starting to think more seriously about the day I can check the water meter, and then turn on the hose!
My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois
More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org