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    Thread: Planning a Pond Rebuild at Windsong Acres

    1. #21
      Windsong Acres's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
      Run two 3" lines into the Zakki Sieve, One from the BD and one from the skimmer. Remove the skimmer backer and let the sieve do all the work, that's what it's designed to do. Zak recommends a self priming pump for the sieve so I would go with the Evolution ESS 5200. That would need to be pinched back just a bit but a good choice for the flow rates of two S/G filters.
      Thank you Steve...that's great info. I wonder how much head loss there would be due to the long length of 3" pipe from the BD to the Zakki, and also because I am currently thinking of placing the Zakki where it would be elevated, with pond water level being about level with the bottom of the unit. I might be able to dig in a "mini pit" and lower it if that would help too...

      I would possibly be able to create a third line that goes directly into the pond if a higher flow rate is ever needed. I could do that by converting one of the two s/g filters to a MB filter...then, while the barrel is empty, adding a wye where the 2" line comes into the barrel near the bottom of it. I could let one side of the wye empty directly into the MB, but the other one could go right back out the side, through a ball valve, and directly into the pond. By opening it up, I could direct some of the water directly into the pond and achieve more than 2000 gph through that return line.

      Alternately, when I'm going excavation on the lower two ponds, I could simply add a third return line to the goldfish pond.
      My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois

      More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org


    2. #22
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      The horizontal run of line shouldn't have much effect. And the Zakki Sieve is designed to be set higher than pond level so no problems there. You would just want 3" swing check valves in your two suction lines.

    3. #23
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      If memory serves me right I think we have about 55 feet of 3" pipe in front of our Zakki sieve. It has two retro-drains hooked up to it and the sieve is above the water level. There is a 6300gph drawing water through it and we can run the Zakki sieve to it's max. If that helps.

    4. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mild Bill View Post
      If memory serves me right I think we have about 55 feet of 3" pipe in front of our Zakki sieve. It has two retro-drains hooked up to it and the sieve is above the water level. There is a 6300gph drawing water through it and we can run the Zakki sieve to it's max. If that helps.
      Thank you Bill...yes, that is great info to have. If I could ask a followup question or two...when you say that you can run the Zakki sieve "to its max," do you mean that the pump is pulling enough water so that the pump begins to cavitate (it's sucking in air)? That would show that you have maxed out the possible flow of water through the two 3" pipes for that distance (and height).

      Or, is there a maximum water flow through the sieve that you are referring to, and what are the signs of that?
      My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois

      More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org


    5. #25
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      Different kind of question: I am debating what kind of structure to build for the walls of the enlarged koi pond. It will be approximately 12' x 24' x 5' deep, with an irregular shape.

      Part of one existing wall is already concrete block...maybe 15' or so, and about 3.5' deep. That was built because the guy who dug the hole (for the EPDM liner) made the hole too big, so I built that wall to make the pond fit the liner! That portion of the wall ends right where the current (and probably future) skimmer will be, and I am only planning to enlarge and change the shape of the other 3 sides.

      So...should I:

      1. Have the excavator dig out that portion of wall while he is enlarging and deeping the pond, and start over with an all new wall?
      2. Try to tie in that portion of the wall and not disturb that portion of the wall/soil?

      Either way, remembering the work of filling in all the holes on the dry-stacked concrete blocks of my other 5' deep pond...I have been thinking about having the walls poured instead, but not sure about the cost of hiring a contractor to make the forms with an irregular shape, or even trying to build forms myself. The shell would not need to be leak-free...I've been planning to use a liner...I'm just wanting to stabilize the soil and make a good foundation for rocks on the edge of the pond.

      But I would consider other methods of construction for this pond...we have weddings scheduled at our place in early May and then several more in the fall, so I want this project to be done, from tear up to fish swimming...between early May and the end of summer. I usually tend toward DIY for cost and personal satisfaction issues, but please offer your ideas!
      My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois

      More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org


    6. #26
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      All things considered I think starting from scratch with all be block would be the fastest and easiest.

    7. #27
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      concrete then fiberglass from mike at koi acres maybe?

    8. #28
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      When I open the ball valve the whole way there is a small amount of water that flows up against the lid. It then flows down the outer sides of the sieve frame. I had some cavitation before I added the wye and a second retro-drain. I think that was due to the size of the gap with the single drain.

    9. #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mild Bill View Post
      When I open the ball valve the whole way there is a small amount of water that flows up against the lid. It then flows down the outer sides of the sieve frame. I had some cavitation before I added the wye and a second retro-drain. I think that was due to the size of the gap with the single drain.
      So once you had two lines feeding the sieve, the pump would not cavitate. Was the wye BEFORE the sieve, or was it after it and before the pump?
      My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois

      More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org


    10. #30
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      It's a single line from the sieve out 40 feet or so then down to the bottom of the pond. It then extends out across the bottom of the pond and wyes out from there. The two drains are about 6 feet apart.

    11. #31
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Windsong Acres View Post
      Different kind of question: I am debating what kind of structure to build for the walls of the enlarged koi pond. It will be approximately 12' x 24' x 5' deep, with an irregular shape.

      Part of one existing wall is already concrete block...maybe 15' or so, and about 3.5' deep. That was built because the guy who dug the hole (for the EPDM liner) made the hole too big, so I built that wall to make the pond fit the liner! That portion of the wall ends right where the current (and probably future) skimmer will be, and I am only planning to enlarge and change the shape of the other 3 sides.

      So...should I:

      1. Have the excavator dig out that portion of wall while he is enlarging and deeping the pond, and start over with an all new wall?
      2. Try to tie in that portion of the wall and not disturb that portion of the wall/soil?

      Either way, remembering the work of filling in all the holes on the dry-stacked concrete blocks of my other 5' deep pond...I have been thinking about having the walls poured instead, but not sure about the cost of hiring a contractor to make the forms with an irregular shape, or even trying to build forms myself. The shell would not need to be leak-free...I've been planning to use a liner...I'm just wanting to stabilize the soil and make a good foundation for rocks on the edge of the pond.

      But I would consider other methods of construction for this pond...we have weddings scheduled at our place in early May and then several more in the fall, so I want this project to be done, from tear up to fish swimming...between early May and the end of summer. I usually tend toward DIY for cost and personal satisfaction issues, but please offer your ideas!
      This is a little bit tricky but you have the best pond building contractor living in Thorntown Indiana...
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    12. #32
      BWG is offline Senior Member
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      Since you are using a liner maybe ICFs are a DIY option. Place gravel on solid ground under where forms will be and compact with a plate compactor.
      Attached Images Attached Images   

    13. #33
      Koi Acres's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
      Since you are using a liner maybe ICFs are a DIY option. Place gravel on solid ground under where forms will be and compact with a plate compactor.
      Using ICF's are a great option if you are looking to construct a irregular shaped - unique pond. We have been building ponds w/ICF's for over 10 years and I would recommend that the pond be excavated to the proper depth and the walls be built on virgin - undisturbed - soil to eliminate any possible future setting issues due to improperly compacted soils.
      Mike




      Weekends are for Enjoying your pond..... not working on them.

    14. #34
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      Koi Acres has some great photos published with ICF koi pond builds. I totally agree with the build comments. Just like a concrete footer it needs to rest on undisturbed ground. Crushed stone of a suitable grade can be used for leveling when sufficiently compacted. Do not try to compact loose soil and build on it.

      I added this comment because many running excavators lack the skill to maintain level on an irregular hole.
      Last edited by BWG; 12-29-2017 at 11:14 AM.

    15. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      This is a little bit tricky but you have the best pond building contractor living in Thorntown Indiana...
      Thank you, Russ! I am glad that you live so much closer to us now, and I hope to be able to get over to see you sometime, (you would be welcome here too). I was assuming you were too busy working on your new building to want to take time off for a small project like mine, but either way, I will probably do this as a do it yourself project with the Styrofoam blocks. Meanwhile, I will look forward to seeing you one of these days in Indiana.
      My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois

      More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org


    16. #36
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      Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
      Since you are using a liner maybe ICFs are a DIY option. Place gravel on solid ground under where forms will be and compact with a plate compactor.
      Thank you for posting these pictures… I have actually been looking into using Styrofoam blocks to form the walls of my pond. I had always ruled them out because I tend to create ponds with lots of curves, and I always thought that Styrofoam blocks were only made straight. However, I recently found out they make curved blocks, and I also realized recently from a video that even straight blocks can be modified to follow a curve.
      My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois

      More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org


    17. #37
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      Here is a more detailed drawing of the planned renovations to the koi pond.

      Instead of having the skimmer come into a sieve, I think it will be sufficient to use a leaf trap ahead of the pump and directly suction about 8000-8500 gph out of the skimmer for the waterfall. Since I may not need all of that water for the waterfall, I will have a bypass line directly back into the pond so I can adjust the amount of flow going through the waterfall.

      I will have the RDF for mechanical filtration, and the shower for biological filteration, so the main purpose of the second circuit is simply to circulate water through the waterfall and serve as a back up in case the RDF circuit ever fails for some reason. Also, the UV will be located on the waterfall circuit, since I could shut that pump off during the winter.
      Attached Images Attached Images  
      Last edited by Windsong Acres; 01-01-2018 at 04:50 PM.
      My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois

      More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org


    18. #38
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      looks like a great plan to me. look forward to your build

    19. #39
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      I am debating about timing of the build… If we get good weather in late February or early March, it would be tempting to dig in and see if I could have it finished by the first part of May. We have a wedding here the first weekend in May, so I don’t want it to be a big construction zone at that time. Otherwise, I could wait until just after the wedding to break ground, and I would have the rest of May June July and August to complete the task before the next wedding that will be hosted here. I know I should wait until later, but if I could get it done in the two month window, it would be a better time to landscape around the edge of the pond in May rather than August.

      More realistically, I think I should use the early spring months to get the top Goldfish pond separated and on it’s own separate filtration circuit, and then I will just make sure I am ready to go right after the wedding in May with the Main dig.
      My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois

      More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org


    20. #40
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      Quote Originally Posted by Windsong Acres View Post
      I am debating about timing of the build… If we get good weather in late February or early March, it would be tempting to dig in and see if I could have it finished by the first part of May. We have a wedding here the first weekend in May, so I don’t want it to be a big construction zone at that time. Otherwise, I could wait until just after the wedding to break ground, and I would have the rest of May June July and August to complete the task before the next wedding that will be hosted here. I know I should wait until later, but if I could get it done in the two month window, it would be a better time to landscape around the edge of the pond in May rather than August.

      More realistically, I think I should use the early spring months to get the top Goldfish pond separated and on it’s own separate filtration circuit, and then I will just make sure I am ready to go right after the wedding in May with the Main dig.
      that would be smart. get the upper dialed in first. we all know it takes longer than expected and don t want an angry wife or brides lol

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