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    Thread: Planning a Pond Rebuild at Windsong Acres

    1. #81
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      mine only comes out 3/4 inch so pretty restrictive
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    2. #82
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      Due to the nature of their design even the ones with larger openings restrict greatly inside the fitting when rotated.

    3. #83
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      Thanks to everyone for the interesting conversation you are having about the TPR’s…

      I am planning to run 3 inch lines all the way from the shower to the TPR‘s that will be about a foot off the floor of the pod. This will be gravity flow, since the pump is removing water from the RDF to the shower.

      Therefore I will not plan to use the fish eyes in this installation, but instead just keep the line open 3 inches all the way hoping to be able to move as much water as possible through the shower via gravity flow.

      Also, because the TPR‘s will be at least 4 feet below the surface of the pond, it will not be easy to move them around, although I like the idea of having flexibility with moveable elbows on the TPRs.
      Last edited by Windsong Acres; 01-28-2018 at 06:51 PM.
      My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois

      More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org


    4. #84
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      Hopefully this picture helps. I used the stone on the outside of the walls all the way up to my bond beam to hold my large stones. Due to the weight of the rocks I was using I made a large bond beam on top of my walls. I used the stone for the fill from the sub grade all the way to the beam, then I also filled the outside edge of the top bond beam with the stone. This way all my plumbing is set in stone that will never move. The freeze thaw cycle’s can really wreak havoc on anything we build here that is not set below the frost line. So with this setup even the outside of the wall has stone all the way below the frost line. So this way you never have to deal with the ground settling and your landscaping moving around each year.

      For the top edge of the pond I did a edging and just put river rock about a foot wide on the back side of my stones. The plan is to use planted pots on the edges, I really don’t want to have roots from trees growing down the sides of the pond. When I dug up my old pond I was amazed at the amount of roots behind the liner.
      Thanks for the compliments on the pool, I’m actually a mechanic by trade and have always had a passion for building stuff with my hands!


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Last edited by CALHOUN; 01-28-2018 at 08:33 PM.

    5. #85
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      3-inch lines?
      I will never use 3-inch pvc again. ((And you shouldn't). 4-inch costs just a little more, is the common size, and is far easier to find all the right fittings for.
      Under the "What Should People be Made Aware of Before They Start Building a Pond", should be:
      ONLY USE 1, 2, OR 4-INCH PVC TO MOVE WATER....no discussion, just do it.
      "Those aren't poodles. They're Dobermans with afros."

    6. #86
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      Quote Originally Posted by lukef View Post
      3-inch lines?
      I will never use 3-inch pvc again. ((And you shouldn't). 4-inch costs just a little more, is the common size, and is far easier to find all the right fittings for.
      Under the "What Should People be Made Aware of Before They Start Building a Pond", should be:
      ONLY USE 1, 2, OR 4-INCH PVC TO MOVE WATER....no discussion, just do it.
      I understand what you’re saying, but I am not sure I follow the reasoning behind making it a universal rule. If a 3 inch pipe is adequate to supply plenty of flow with no or very little resistance, what would the advantage be of using a 4 inch pipe instead? I understand that for very little extra money, you can have extra capacity, but in my case, I have a lot of pipes that have to go the entire distance of my relatively small pit, and then turn and go underground before heading to the pond... not being argumentative, but I am worried I won’t have enough room in this case for the 3” lines. But I agree you are making a valid point that a 4 inch line would give you a vast increase in the capacity for that pipe, especially for the possibility of future changes.
      My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois

      More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org


    7. #87
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      Quote Originally Posted by CALHOUN View Post

      Hopefully this picture helps. I used the stone on the outside of the walls all the way up to my bond beam to hold my large stones. Due to the weight of the rocks I was using I made a large bond beam on top of my walls. I used the stone for the fill from the sub grade all the way to the beam, then I also filled the outside edge of the top bond beam with the stone. This way all my plumbing is set in stone that will never move. The freeze thaw cycle’s can really wreak havoc on anything we build here that is not set below the frost line. So with this setup even the outside of the wall has stone all the way below the frost line. So this way you never have to deal with the ground settling and your landscaping moving around each year.

      For the top edge of the pond I did a edging and just put river rock about a foot wide on the back side of my stones. The plan is to use planted pots on the edges, I really don’t want to have roots from trees growing down the sides of the pond. When I dug up my old pond I was amazed at the amount of roots behind the liner.
      Thanks for the compliments on the pool, I’m actually a mechanic by trade and have always had a passion for building stuff with my hands!


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Wow! Those are some big rocks that need a lot of support. I know my wife will want to plant flowers and such near the rocks by our pond although our rocks will be more like steppingstones. If I just use the limestone in the immediate area around the pipes, then switch the backfill to dirt, should I put geocloth or anything else betwee the dirt and gravel to prevent the dirt from eventually permeating the gravel?

      Also, is there a danger of damaging the pipes by compacting the limestone right over the pipes...or in using limestone around the pipes under the floor of the pond (I.e. having gravel under the rubber liner)? I do plan to use a commercial back game between the ground and the liner but I still wondered if a sharp rock could cause a problem.

      Thanks for your ideas and pics!
      My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois

      More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org


    8. #88
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      3” plumbing pipes and fittings are really common in the my plumbing world .



    9. #89
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      Quote Originally Posted by Windsong Acres View Post
      Wow! Those are some big rocks that need a lot of support. I know my wife will want to plant flowers and such near the rocks by our pond although our rocks will be more like steppingstones. If I just use the limestone in the immediate area around the pipes, then switch the backfill to dirt, should I put geocloth or anything else betwee the dirt and gravel to prevent the dirt from eventually permeating the gravel?

      Also, is there a danger of damaging the pipes by compacting the limestone right over the pipes...or in using limestone around the pipes under the floor of the pond (I.e. having gravel under the rubber liner)? I do plan to use a commercial back game between the ground and the liner but I still wondered if a sharp rock could cause a problem.

      Thanks for your ideas and pics!
      Just a thought, have you considered going with no linear, using xypex? My old pond that I took out was a lot like yours, the linear was only about 7 years old. I couldn’t believe the small holes in it, have no idea what caused them. Also due to the shape I had tons of folds was surprised at all the gunk in the folds. It’s going to cost a little more up front but in the long run I think it will be cheaper. I would definitly have a barrier between the linear and the stone. I wouldn’t worry about compacting over the pipes, make sure you use pressure pipe PVC. I don’t think you’ll have a problem with your backfill working into the stone, this stuff locks together really well.
      Last edited by CALHOUN; 02-03-2018 at 12:58 PM.

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      Double post

    11. #91
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      Quote Originally Posted by CALHOUN View Post
      Just a thought, have you considered going with no linear, using xypex? My old pond that I took out was a lot like yours, the linear was only about 7 years old. I couldn’t believe the small holes in it, have no idea what caused them. Also due to the shape I had tons of folds was surprised at all the gunk in the folds. It’s going to cost a little more up front but in the long run I think it will be cheaper. I would definitly have a barrier between the linear and the stone. I wouldn’t worry about compacting over the pipes, make sure you use pressure pipe PVC. I don’t think you’ll have a problem with your backfill working into the stone, this stuff locks together really well.
      I have briefly considered going with xypex, or some other method of pond shell construction, for the reasons you stated, including the risk of a burrowing animal eating a hole in the liner, or a deer falling in and messing up the liner attempting to get out. However, I wanted to make this a DIY project as much as possible, and cost is still somewhat of an object. Anyway, for reasons that may or may not have been ideal, I began this project planning for another liner type pond like the others I have built. So the liner was ordered already by the time I saw your last post, and it arrived yesterday on the truck. If I was younger and needed to get 25-30 years out of the pond, and been more certain that I would be satisfied long term with the final pond, I would have taken a harder look at other options, too. But at this point, I am hoping to get 10-20 years out of the pond (in 20 years I will be 78, and probably not wanting to climb in and out of pits!). And because this pond is close to our house, I could imagine the possibility of either wanting to add to it in future years, or otherwise changing it to some degree.

      The photos you sent of your pond are very helpful...I have studied them over multiple times. Thank you again for those!

      I will be using the washed limestone for backfill and to help secure the pipes underground as you suggested; when I talked to my excavating contractor about that, he suggested a material that has crushed limestone in it too (he said it sets up hard...but not sure if that is better or worse than straight 1/2-5/8 washed limestone gravel, since I would assume it would be easier to get through later if I ever needed to dig up a pipe that is covered in it. What do you think? I have not called and talked to our local gravel dealer yet...still on my list.
      My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois

      More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org


    12. #92
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      If the crushed limestone is crusher run, it will have lots of fines in it. The fines will add stability, reduce porosity, but will require some form of compactor to get good density, which will come naturally with a single or near single size material. I would stay with the near single size if you think you will be digging it up to do maintenance or revision to the plumbing.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Windsong Acres View Post
      I have briefly considered going with xypex, or some other method of pond shell construction, for the reasons you stated, including the risk of a burrowing animal eating a hole in the liner, or a deer falling in and messing up the liner attempting to get out. However, I wanted to make this a DIY project as much as possible, and cost is still somewhat of an object. Anyway, for reasons that may or may not have been ideal, I began this project planning for another liner type pond like the others I have built. So the liner was ordered already by the time I saw your last post, and it arrived yesterday on the truck. If I was younger and needed to get 25-30 years out of the pond, and been more certain that I would be satisfied long term with the final pond, I would have taken a harder look at other options, too. But at this point, I am hoping to get 10-20 years out of the pond (in 20 years I will be 78, and probably not wanting to climb in and out of pits!). And because this pond is close to our house, I could imagine the possibility of either wanting to add to it in future years, or otherwise changing it to some degree.

      The photos you sent of your pond are very helpful...I have studied them over multiple times. Thank you again for those!

      I will be using the washed limestone for backfill and to help secure the pipes underground as you suggested; when I talked to my excavating contractor about that, he suggested a material that has crushed limestone in it too (he said it sets up hard...but not sure if that is better or worse than straight 1/2-5/8 washed limestone gravel, since I would assume it would be easier to get through later if I ever needed to dig up a pipe that is covered in it. What do you think? I have not called and talked to our local gravel dealer yet...still on my list.
      I would not recommend any stones with fines in it. Like Rich says, If for some reason you have to go back and access your plumbing in will be a pain to get to. The small 3/8 washed limestone will be easy to access your plumbing, plus there’s no need to compact it. Also the compacted limestone with fines if happens to be above the frost line it will hold moisture and heave.

    14. #94
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      Quote Originally Posted by CALHOUN View Post
      I would not recommend any stones with fines in it. Like Rich says, If for some reason you have to go back and access your plumbing in will be a pain to get to. The small 3/8 washed limestone will be easy to access your plumbing, plus there’s no need to compact it. Also the compacted limestone with fines if happens to be above the frost line it will hold moisture and heave.
      Excellent points...thank you! I will continue talking with the contractor about all the details.
      My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois

      More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org


    15. #95
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      Quote Originally Posted by RichToyBox View Post
      If the crushed limestone is crusher run, it will have lots of fines in it. The fines will add stability, reduce porosity, but will require some form of compactor to get good density, which will come naturally with a single or near single size material. I would stay with the near single size if you think you will be digging it up to do maintenance or revision to the plumbing.
      Thanks Rich! That makes good sense.
      My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois

      More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org


    16. #96
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      If it's going under concrete or pavers it must be compacted regardless of what you buy. I have never seen a build specification that didn't state this. Around and under pipes can be compacted with simple landscape manual hand compactor like HD sells. It doesn't take a lot of tamping to pack around pipes. A mix of various sizes packs better than a single size 3/8. 3/8 in our area is also substantially more cost than mixed sizes.

      Posted below are the mixes from a quarry near me recommended as a base.
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    17. #97
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      Both of those sizes are what I would call a single size, have almost no fines/dust. They make for a good base, easily compacted, whereas a crusher run or highway base material is full of fines and with compaction are almost like concrete to dig out. The #57 is really a combination of two sizes, #5 and #7, whereas the #6 is a single size Pea gravel is typically, #8 (3/8 to 3/16")

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      Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
      If it's going under concrete or pavers it must be compacted regardless of what you buy. I have never seen a build specification that didn't state this. Around and under pipes can be compacted with simple landscape manual hand compactor like HD sells. It doesn't take a lot of tamping to pack around pipes. A mix of various sizes packs better than a single size 3/8. 3/8 in our area is also substantially more cost than mixed sizes.

      Posted below are the mixes from a quarry near me recommended as a base.
      This was always my understanding when installing pavers, till I meet my friend from the east coast. My pool installation has never had a compactor ran on it. The sub grade was made so it would completely shed water off to one end, then to a drain. Then the stone was added, Ohio 9’s. Small 1/4” to 3/8” in size 0 fines. In some places it’s 8” and at the far end it’s over 30”. We screeded it just like you would with sand then simply laid the pavers on top. It looks just like the day I installed it. On the elevated patio of the pool it was over 4’ we snapped a line on the wall and then compacted the stone to see how much it would move, it did nothing but smooth the top off the stone. When they say it’s 99% compacted coming off the shovel they are correct.
      Last edited by CALHOUN; 02-03-2018 at 12:59 PM.

    19. #99
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      Progress report. Phase one is to redo and isolate the goldfish pond filtration system. Added a skimmer and a direct water return line. In process of plumbing a Zakki sieve in pond shed (above water level). Dug down and tapped into existing BD line and two pressure return lines to the existing s/g barrels. Long weekend of digging and plumbing. Cleaned out and drained goldfish pond, moved them to a 300 gallon stock tank after Intex pool was leaking and initial efforts to find the leaks failed to find all of them.

      Once I finish the Zakki Sieve and cut the TPR and skimmer into the pond, I will fill it and put the koi in it temporarily so we can renovate their pond.
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      My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois

      More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org


    20. #100
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      Today we will be digging up the old pond! It is really pretty sad to take apart all the rocks and move the fish out and see it all go… Now we are down to an empty liner and later today that will be gone before the excavator arrives. The new pond should hold about three times as much water as the old one, And it will have a much improved filtration configuration.
      Attached Images Attached Images   
      My Current 13,000 gallon Pond Build: http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ot-in-Illinois

      More info about our renovated barns and ponds: www.WindsongAcres.org


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