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    Thread: Mixed messages

    1. #41
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      quickie on the house that is 300 years old. seems to have modern windows that are less than 5 years old. the entry seems new as well. im pretty intrigued how the UK build vs the us
      Yes, the windows are modern double glazed and the house was also insulated at the same time to make it more energy efficient. The below is the inside above the entrance. Where the entrance is and to the right of it is all new, originally there was a path there.

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      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    2. #42
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiRun View Post
      I find covering and heating is a big leap forward and you've done just that. So far so good for you! You feed, you change water and regularly test your water and keep logs. You feed and koi are growing well. Also cameras and predator control. Pretty good start I'd say. So keep sharing your experiences as I'm learning from you too. Question - do you have a bottom drain? If not how do keep your bottom clean?
      Currently I'm feeding according to the instructions given by Hikari which is to feed during the daylight hours. This makes sense to me as my koi are only active during the daylight hours which is very short these days. They don't need as much food. So it's inherent that I only have a short window to feed them thus naturally they are fed less.

      I wish this feeding works for human. For example I like to sleep ALOT during winter. So less time up, less time for me to go to the fridge. I'm not as active during winter anyway (lazy - lol).
      Thanks. Currently I feed 6 times a day at 73f and I have lights on the pond that kick in at dusk until 10pm. The Koi get their last feed at 7-8pm and eat well. I put lights outside and not in the pond as I read that external lights are better for the fish - less disorientating for them and it also means they donít get covered in algae, etc.

      The predator control was necessary as we have a small lake about 3-4 miles away that attracts Herons. The old pond lost a lot of Goldfish over the years.

      I donít have a bottom drain, I have a pond vacuum that I use. I cleaned out the pond with it this week, with the covers on Iím only doing it once a month just now. In the Summer, with leaves, etc going in, I was doing it once a week.

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      Last edited by Essex Koi; 12-20-2017 at 05:20 AM.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    3. #43
      audioenvy is offline Supporting Member
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      Fish don't LAY on the bottom. They LIE on the bottom.

    4. #44
      coolwon is online now Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by audioenvy View Post
      Fish don't LAY on the bottom. They LIE on the bottom.
      Watch it, you will get laid.

      Garfield
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    5. #45
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post

      44 fish in 1400 gallons is a transit pond

      You know very well, an overstocked pond is the biggest no-no in fish keeping.

      Garfield
      Itís interesting to see what folk consider overstocked. I went with 250 Gallons per fish, which allows me a max of 15 fish, currently at 14, but plan on one more next year. However, one guy I know has 60 fully grown Koi in 6,000 Gallons - giving 100 gallons per fish, they have been in the pond for a number of years, are healthy and looked after. His filtration includes 2 x Nexus 310ís, a 500 litre micro K1 biochamber, a Bakki Shower and various other bits that I canít recall. His water turnover rate is x3 per hour I think and he trickles in around 50 gallons of fresh water via a carbon filter per hour. I was shown his pond when I just started and was overwhelmed by the amount of equipment he used.

      I will add that he had a small garden and couldnít expand it even if he wanted to, he had dug it out to make it deeper a few years back, so itís at 2 metres / 6ft 6Ē. I am willing to hazard a guess as to why he did this - he was Ďbitten by the Koi bugí and looked to do what he could.

      It seems that some people use different solutions to ensure the Koi are kept in good conditions and that the 250 gallon per fish rule can be bent, if not broken. Personally I think my pond isnít mature enough to meddle in such things, nor is my filtration good enough to Ďoverstockí. Iíve resisted the urge to fill it with more Koi even though folk keep telling me that the pond looks empty with so few fish in it. Iíve gone with the view that as the koi get bigger, theyíll need the space.

      If anything, Iíd like to build another pond in part of the front garden in a year or two, create something around 10,000 Gallons and use the back pond as a winter pond as it will be easier and cost efficient to heat.
      Last edited by Essex Koi; 12-20-2017 at 08:45 AM.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    6. #46
      kdh is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Essex Koi View Post
      Itís interesting to see what folk consider overstocked. I went with 250 Gallons per fish, which allows me a max of 15 fish, currently at 14, but plan on one more next year. However, one guy I know has 60 fully grown Koi in 6,000 Gallons - giving 100 gallons per fish, they have been in the pond for a number of years, are healthy and looked after. His filtration includes 2 x Nexus 310ís, a 500 litre micro K1 biochamber, a Bakki Shower and various other bits that I canít recall. His water turnover rate is x3 per hour I think and he trickles in around 50 gallons of fresh water via a carbon filter per hour. I was shown his pond when I just started and was overwhelmed by the amount of equipment he used.

      I will add that he had a small garden and couldnít expand it even if he wanted to, he had dug it out to make it deeper a few years back, so itís at 2 metres / 6ft 6Ē. I am willing to hazard a guess as to why he did this - he was Ďbitten by the Koi bugí and looked to do what he could.

      It seems that some people use different solutions to ensure the Koi are kept in good conditions and that the 250 gallon per fish rule can be bent, if not broken. Personally I think my pond isnít mature enough to meddle in such things, nor is my filtration good enough to Ďoverstockí. Iíve resisted the urge to fill it with more Koi even though folk keep telling me that the pond looks empty with so few fish in it. Iíve gone with the view that as the koi get bigger, theyíll need the space.

      If anything, Iíd like to build another pond in part of the front garden in a year or two, create something around 10,000 Gallons and use the back pond as a winter pond as it will be easier and cost efficient to heat.
      Just add this to your list. lol

      I had about 35 koi in 2700 gallons at one time.
      Last edited by kdh; 12-20-2017 at 09:59 AM.

    7. #47
      Rob Forbis is offline Senior Member
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      But of course oh newbie one would know be. You make the classic error in Western koi keeping: thinking. Thinking that there is an underlying logic. There isnít one.

      I love nishikigoi. But attaching human emotion to skin color mutations of common carp is not quantum physics. A thunderous art form in living flesh to be sure, but not rational, so donít think.

      Friendship through scales.

    8. #48
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      Wow! You must’ve had good filtration and I’m guessing it would’ve been pretty cool to watch at feeding time.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    9. #49
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rob Forbis View Post
      But of course oh newbie one would know be. You make the classic error in Western koi keeping: thinking. Thinking that there is an underlying logic. There isn’t one.

      I love nishikigoi. But attaching human emotion to skin color mutations of common carp is not quantum physics. A thunderous art form in living flesh to be sure, but not rational, so don’t think.

      Friendship through scales.
      Doesn’t make any sense to me, the Japanese evidently do think about it, hence the things I’ve read about massive amounts of aeration and constant water changes that many breeders use in Japan. The Eastern Koi keeping methods in many ways are just as logical and thought out.

      There is an underlying logic - keep the water quality high, feed good food, etc. It’s a matter of how folk interpret this that is usually in contention from what I’ve seen.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    10. #50
      kdh is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Essex Koi View Post
      Wow! You mustíve had good filtration and Iím guessing it wouldíve been pretty cool to watch at feeding time.

      Just a large lava filter that the experts say do not work. lol The koi were for the most part about 12" and a few were 18." However over time not knowing about proper maintenance protocol. I started to have issues with my koi. This took me to a different level of learning about koi. As many others have experienced.

      We all adopt our ponds to what we want and the possibilities are endless. I also found (for myself) that I liked having fewer fish, I was able to appreciate and focus on a few of 13 koi in 9600 gallons (newer pond). Just a different stage in life is all.

      I no longer have a koi pond. So I guess I have gone full circle.
      Last edited by kdh; 12-20-2017 at 10:32 AM.

    11. #51
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      Yep, I had similar in April with just one tiny foam based filter that many told me the fish would die from, despite the setup being the same for 4 years before we bought the place...there were around 90 goldfish in it.

      Hope you go back round to keeping Koi again...
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    12. #52
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      having 44 koi in 1400 gallons is way overcrowded but the key is to go overkill on filtration. the rdf removes my waste from the water column and then the shower with mostly ceramic media can do it's work. often heavy fish loads can lead to high nitrates which I believe can cause problems. also the fish compete for the food alot and this might be a bit more of a stressor to the koi.

    13. #53
      kdh is offline Senior Member
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      pm sent

    14. #54
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      Trial and error and common sense is what it takes. I take most advice with a grain of salt, if you have ever read through my pond builds, you will see so much conflicting advice, sometimes I took the advice and sometimes I didn't, sometimes it worked out and other times it didn't, but I researched every spare second I had and so far I am very pleased with how things turned out and how well my system is working. Like others have said, every situation is different and there is no one rule for most of those situations. I was told my my S/G filter should have had a concrete pad under it rather than having it supported by blocks directly on the ground, they said over time it will sink into the ground, I know my soil, it is hard pan at the depth I dug my filter pit, I wasn't worried and did it my way without pouring a pad, it hasn't moved a millimeter in 3 years. I was also told I should have used outdoor rated electrical plugs and switches in my filter house due to humidity, I thought that was silly, my bathroom gets more humidity than my filter house, in fact I haven't had any issues with moisture in the filter house ever. Another big one was the being told my Hydrosieves were just glorified leaf traps and I would end up hating them, again, not true, I love them, they have worked exactly how I envisioned and have been super easy to maintain. There are many more, but sometimes you have to go with your gut, sometimes you will be wrong, but you will learn!

      Cheryl

    15. #55
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    16. #56
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      Ive posted something like this on KP before, but i still believe it wholeheartedly. Very few people out of the group of folks that keep koi have the ability to raise koi that are consistently healthy, big, and beautiful. And of the group that does, no two of them do it the exact same way. This means that there are multiple ways to do "it" right. Find one person who has accomplished great koi keeping, buy him or her a beer (or several) and learn that person's method. Then implement it. When you have it down to a science, then you can fiddle with it and take it where you want it to go. The unfortunate part about having access to all the information in the world at your fingertips is that a good chunk of it is b.s. and people make claims that they dont fully understand. I think its important to have a "koi mentor" that you trust.

      Trial and error is also important. I read somewhere that if you heat a hospital tank to exactly 81 degrees, bacterial infections will clear up on their own. I did this 2 separate times with minor infections and in each case the infection got way worse and then required antibiotics. Both koi made full recoveries but be careful what information you trust. If i had gone the antibiotic route earlier, it would have saved me time, money, and stress.

    17. #57
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      I believe there is a middle ground, where novices can be given basic advice that 99% can agree on, such as the below, Iíve started it off, but not finished it...

      Koi keeping can be expensive and requires a lot of maintenance - do not enter into it lightly as it can be time consuming and make your wallet lighter. Be prepared to spend the time to clean out filters, do maintenance, change water, etc.

      Koi Keeping Novice Guide

      Buying Koi

      Buy from a reputable dealer not a local pet store, look closely at their facilities and donít be afraid to ask questions.

      Pond Setup

      Look at threads on the forum where folk have built their ponds and the equipment theyíve bought. General rule of thumb, allow 250 Gallons of pond water space per fish. Remember those little Koi will soon enough become big Koi.

      Filtration

      Whichever form of filtration you go for, remember to half the claims made by the manufacturer - if it says Ďwill filter a 10,000 gallon pondí then itís really 5,000. If your pond position means it will get a lot of direct sun and / or leaves, etc blowing in - take another 10% off the claims. Read up on the different types of filtration and choose which suits your climate / pond size / koi and donít be afraid to ask others, but ultimately you will have to choose what you think best.

      Water Quality

      Xxxxxxx

      Food


      Xxxx

      Medications

      Xxxx

      Winter Prep

      Xxxx
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    18. #58
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      There is a rule that says rules are made to be broken. The 250 rule has been broken by many, but many that have broken the rule and suffered extended power outages have paid the price. Without filtration and aeration, big koi can suffer much quicker with only 100 gallons per fish, than with the 250. For those that never experience extended power outages, you are blessed. When I would get a major storm, ice or hurricane, I would end up running generators for 6 days, with almost every one of the outages. I ended up with a whole house standby generator so that I was not out in a storm at 2AM trying to get the generator started.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    19. #59
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      I had two outages this Summer, one lasting 6 hours and another around 26 hours. I hired a generator on the second about 5 hours in. It’s on my list of things to buy for next year, the house is wired up to take a generator.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    20. #60
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      i don't get very long power outages may be 2 hours tops. i do have a deep cycle battery and power inverter to use my 40 liter air pump if needed. havent tested to see how long it would last but I'm sure it would last 3 or 4 hours though. i also might get a generator for good measure

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