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    Thread: Mixed messages

    1. #21
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      belly sores. when fish lay on the bottom for periods of time they can get bacterial infections more easily. i had my share of bacterial infections on the belly of my koi and it is a bad thing to have to deal with.

      other than making the wallet thinner I can't see any downside to heating a pond. as for 73 being to hot, my tosai saw 86 this summer and didn't mind it all. still ate and fish were fine
      It’s really been pretty good cost wise, working out to £80 a month, which is probably equivalent to a 100 dollars or so, the pond is well insulated and even the pipes run directly into the pond under the cover, so no heat is lost.
      4000 US Gallon, 18 Koi. Eazypod, Oase Drum Combi, Bakki Shower, heated and covered pond.

    2. #22
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      now we see why you can heat the pond. nice place you have

      Thanks, we are still settling in and getting used to it all. The house is about 300 years old, but was expanded about 50 years ago.
      4000 US Gallon, 18 Koi. Eazypod, Oase Drum Combi, Bakki Shower, heated and covered pond.

    3. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by Essex Koi View Post
      Thanks, we are still settling in and getting used to it all. The house is about 300 years old, but was expanded about 50 years ago.
      wow they don't build them like they used to. looks new still

    4. #24
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      The koi world has many "Rules of Thumb", most are based on nothing. I have gone counter to several of them because they made no sense from a science stand point. Feeding at lower temperatures should really be based on the ability of the filtration to handle the waste. Just like the fish slow down in colder water, the bacteria do also, and if they cannot maintain a zero ammonia and zero nitrite, then it is time to slow the feeding to level that the filters can handle. There are those that promote abstinence during the spring to limit egg development in the fish, and it might work, but dogs and cats come into season regardless of the amount of food or lack thereof they have access to, and I have not seen evidence. I do like to keep the water warm enough that the fish are not laying on the bottom, as I believe that the debris on the bottom acts as sandpaper removing the slime coat on the underside of the fish, opening them up to belly sores, which are fairly common in the spring. There is a lot of propaganda about something called "aeromonas alley" which is defined by a particular temperature range and therefore you don't want your fish held in those temperatures or they get sores. The thing is that the fish have laid on the bottom of the pond all winter, have sores developing on the bellies, and as the temperature is coming up the immune system of the fish can't keep up with the bacterial explosion. If the fish are not allowed to just lay on the bottom, they can be kept in those temperatures with no ill effect. Just keep the immune systems up and the fish survive. I started heating to keep my fish out of "aeromonas alley" but as time went forward, I learned that it was not the temperature that was the factor, but the general health of the fish.

      The only rules that I think matter are test frequently so that ammonia, nitrites and KH stay good, and keep the fish moving with adequate temperature and feed.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    5. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by Essex Koi View Post
      The reason I heated was because a friend of mine was telling my wife & I how he lost 6 fish over the previous winter in his unheated pond, but it was in particular the gruesome way that some of them died...he said that three of them wore away the skin on the bottom of their bellies as they rock back & forth on the bottom of the pond and basically when he lifted them out, their insides were falling out. That was enough to convince us to either heat or not to keep Koi at all.
      There is more to the story and not understood by your friend,you and us as now you have started a story that adds to more misinformation of koi keeping. So is it common in your area for koi coming out of winter to have there guts fall out? And thus most ponders in your area have heaters? As many here have had koi for many years and never even come close to having a horror story as this. Or even a red belly of any kind.

    6. #26
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by kdh View Post
      There is more to the story and not understood by your friend,you and us as now you have started a story that adds to more misinformation of koi keeping. So is it common in your area for koi coming out of winter to have there guts fall out? And thus most ponders in your area have heaters? As many here have had koi for many years and never even come close to having a horror story as this. Or even a red belly of any kind.
      Again, I donít know if itís common or not, I believe he did have issues and as he lives 15 miles from us and we have the same climate...you may well be correct that there is more to it, but as a novice, how do I know?
      Last edited by Essex Koi; 12-19-2017 at 09:43 PM.
      4000 US Gallon, 18 Koi. Eazypod, Oase Drum Combi, Bakki Shower, heated and covered pond.

    7. #27
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      Your vid is very nice and an amazing place. The song is one of my favorites of hers as well.


      How about a pic of the front.

    8. #28
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by kdh View Post
      Your vid is very nice and an amazing place. The song is one of my favorites of hers as well.


      How about a pic of the front.
      Donít have many of the front as we seem to spend most of our time in the back.



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      4000 US Gallon, 18 Koi. Eazypod, Oase Drum Combi, Bakki Shower, heated and covered pond.

    9. #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by Essex Koi View Post
      Again, I don’t know if it’s common or not, I believe he did have issues and as he lives 15 miles from us and we have the same climate...you may well be correct that there is more to it, but as a novice, how do I know?
      you never said it was common in your area or anyone's area for that matter. many people have experienced belly sores and I don't think there is 1 particular reason it happened. some shut down the pond during winter. there is no doubt it is more stress on the fishs immune system often the healthier ones make it out ok and some don't make it. this isn't just made up fake news. the koi should be healthy heading into winter and and should habe been well fed prior to the cold water. like most animals prepare for the winter months.

    10. #30
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      Thanks, my logic was that it would be easier and less stressful for us as well as the fish to heat our way through and not worry about it. The pond was built to be able to do so easily and efficiently.
      4000 US Gallon, 18 Koi. Eazypod, Oase Drum Combi, Bakki Shower, heated and covered pond.

    11. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by Essex Koi View Post
      Thanks, my logic was that it would be easier and less stressful for us as well as the fish to heat our way through and not worry about it. The pond was built to be able to do so easily and efficiently.
      Sounds like you are off to a good start Good luck and watch out for that steep learning curve!

    12. #32
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      Like some other things it's often said, "If it was easy everyone would do it".
      Many ways to do the same thing... doubt we'll ever have a "guide" for newbies
      to follow that all would condone. See what works for you and you'll soon be adding
      your own experiences when the next beginner asks.
      --Steve
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    13. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by Essex Koi View Post
      Thanks, my logic was that it would be easier and less stressful for us as well as the fish to heat our way through and not worry about it. The pond was built to be able to do so easily and efficiently.
      you are correct. i heated my tosai last year and had 0 problems and lost no fish. keeps the immune system and filtration up to par and never stopped feeding them also

    14. #34
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      I find covering and heating is a big leap forward and you've done just that. So far so good for you! You feed, you change water and regularly test your water and keep logs. You feed and koi are growing well. Also cameras and predator control. Pretty good start I'd say. So keep sharing your experiences as I'm learning from you too. Question - do you have a bottom drain? If not how do keep your bottom clean?
      Currently I'm feeding according to the instructions given by Hikari which is to feed during the daylight hours. This makes sense to me as my koi are only active during the daylight hours which is very short these days. They don't need as much food. So it's inherent that I only have a short window to feed them thus naturally they are fed less.

      I wish this feeding works for human. For example I like to sleep ALOT during winter. So less time up, less time for me to go to the fridge. I'm not as active during winter anyway (lazy - lol).
      Last edited by KoiRun; 12-19-2017 at 11:59 PM.
      Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. ---- Marthe Troly-Curtin



    15. #35
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      i keep thinking you had health problem which you haven't knock on wood. like Stephen said you are off to a great start. I'm 5 years into the hobby and have learned alot. you are progressing way faster than me in the hobby and will also be a great asset to the koi community i feel. keep it going bud

    16. #36
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      Quote Originally Posted by Essex Koi View Post
      I read up in Bakki Showers / Bakki Rivers, but havenít looked to implement. Also Anoxic Filtration, which seems to garner strong opinions for and against.

      I looked at this as it would fit nicely along one ledge on my pond and with the added space for plants, would look nice too, but was told it was silly and wouldnít work...

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ehKR2RlomWI
      4000 us Gallons and 14 fish.

      I would keep it KISS! They will be there for when you get home for sundowners.

      You don't need pond and fish hassles.

      You might wish you had never started.

      They are very fragile creatures.

      Do I see, NEVER, NEVER mix pond plants and fish on your list

      Garfield
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    17. #37
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      quickie on the house that is 300 years old. seems to have modern windows that are less than 5 years old. the entry seems new as well. im pretty intrigued how the UK build vs the us

    18. #38
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      belly sores. when fish lay on the bottom for periods of time they can get bacterial infections more easily. i had my share of bacterial infections on the belly of my koi and it is a bad thing to have to deal with.

      other than making the wallet thinner I can't see any downside to heating a pond. as for 73 being to hot, my tosai saw 86 this summer and didn't mind it all. still ate and fish were fine
      I don't know. Even in very cold temps, my fish don't actually lay on the bottom. ONE fish did that, but it is a small and weak one. I don't count it as normal for the fish to actually lay with their belly on the bottom. With that said, I have goldfish and not Koi so I'm not sure if it's typical or not. In the wild, it makes no sense that the fish would lay on the bottoms and develop sores. Goes against nature.

    19. #39
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      4000 us Gallons and 14 fish.

      I would keep it KISS! They will be there for when you get home for sundowners.

      You don't need pond and fish hassles.

      You might wish you had never started.

      They are very fragile creatures.

      Do I see, NEVER, NEVER mix pond plants and fish on your list

      Garfield
      i have 44 fish and 1400 gallons. what are u saying?.i would rehome as they get bigger but 14 smaller koi is nothing really. I'm not big on plants in the pond also

    20. #40
      coolwon is online now Senior Member
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      Tell us about ALL your overstocked scary moments.

      If I am not mistaken you consider yourself a dealer.

      44 fish in 1400 gallons is a transit pond.

      The Essex man wants to come home to his pond with a shoal of selected fish each with its own name and enjoy his sundowners.

      As time passes he will become bitten by the koi bug and expand or fill it in and make a rose garden.

      When he loses power during the course of the day his fish will not be piping and looking stressed out, they will go into a calm, restive mode to suit the water conditions.

      Allowing the Essex man to come home restore the utilities.

      You know very well, an overstocked pond is the biggest no-no in fish keeping.

      Garfield
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