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  • Results 1 to 18 of 18

    Thread: Safeguard question – BD connects to pump directly

    1. #1
      hp is offline Senior Member
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      Safeguard question – BD connects to pump directly

      Hi,

      Who in here connects the BD directly to the pump? Do you have a safeguard to prevent the pump from emptying the pond if the plumping broke after the discharge? I currently connect both BD and skimmer to the pump, so this will not happen. However, I will modify my plumping and will have different pumps for BD and Skimmer. I am looking at Low Water Auto Cut-Off Switch. I wonder if you have different way to prevent this that you can share?

      Thanks,
      hp.

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    2. #2
      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
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      have not done it. but maybe put the low cutoff switch in the skimmer if possible. water goes down skimmer gets dry and pump shuts off and fish and pump still make it

    3. #3
      davidjensen's Avatar
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      I have a low water cut off switch set to 12” but if a pipe broke in the filter pit the pond would only drain down 20”
      Need more Koi

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      kimini is offline Senior Member
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      No one if they have a proper filter system.

      Never mind pipes breaking - the pump impeller will jam up with algae and leaves, at best, requiring daily disassembly during the summer. Worse, it'll completely jam up and burn out the bearings from lack of flow.
      Last edited by kimini; 12-13-2017 at 09:22 PM.

    5. #5
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      I’ve experienced one time when the media in one of 55g gravity barrel blocked the return pipe and water was overflow at a good rate. I went out in the morning and my pond water was at 12” where I glued the swing check valve. I think the valve closed and that was a miracle I didn’t loose any fish
      So of course that is the first thing I considered with my current pond where to stop feed the water to the pump from the settlement chamber
      M.Nguyen


    6. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
      No one if they have a proper filter system.

      Never mind pipes breaking - the pump impeller will jam up with algae and leaves, at best, requiring daily disassembly during the summer. Worse, it'll completely jam up and burn out the bearings from lack of flow.
      i don't think he is saying he is not running a leaf basket before the pump.

    7. #7
      hp is offline Senior Member
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      @OCKoiFan - That was a scary situation there, and lucky enough you avoided what could have been a pretty bad situation.. That's what I try to avoid.. Not only the plumping break, some random/stupid things could happen and we could wakeup/go home with the pond empty and dead fishes.. The pond liner could leak but I think it will most likely slow and we can see it. Plumping issue can empty the pond pretty quick..

      @Kimini - as you know, not many first ponder have diy pond and have "proper" filter the first time. My pond is running for 1 full year now. Learning from koiphen here, I see many weakness in my set up. That's why I will make some modification in spring to make it better (better filters, less maintaining, and more sufficient etc.).. I can't afford to just tear it down and build a new one. So, I will try to make it better with the space and existing design. I will have a leaf basket before the pump, so, hopefully that will prevent the problem that you describe.

      @Kevin - Yeah, I planned to have the auto shut-off.. That's is easy and simple.. I just asked because so many times, I see koiphen members have so many creative ideas ... And plus I just bring up the topic.. who know, some rookie members like me may not even think about this and don't even have one.. Well, I know one member, Kevin32, doesn't have one

      hp.

    8. #8
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      Last edited by coolwon; 12-14-2017 at 09:08 AM.
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    9. #9
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
      No one if they have a proper filter system.

      Never mind pipes breaking - the pump impeller will jam up with algae and leaves, at best, requiring daily disassembly during the summer. Worse, it'll completely jam up and burn out the bearings from lack of flow.

      Most pool pumps have a removable basket ahead of the impeller in the self-primer to remove the leaves and the heavy stuff.

      A poor pond building practice to direct water from your bottom drain directly into your pump, results in a suspended soup mix.

      No water flow generally burns out the shaft seal due to no cooling water lubrication, which causes the shaft seal to leak which in turn

      seizes the front bearing and burns out the motor windings if the bimetal protection device contacts weld themselves together and the windings overheat.

      The front bearing can become noisy and tightens up due to a leaking shaft seal if there is no rubber slinger ring to stop moisture entering the motor housing and

      the bearing.

      Garfield
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    10. #10
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      hp:

      coolwon and kemini both touched on the leaf basket. I agree with their comments, I know that nobody is questioning their input. Certainly not me.

      I understand that you are not new to the pond world and you have most likely seen something similar to my picture. When this jpeg was shot my two BD's were gravity feeding an ES8500 with Leaf trap. No filtration between pond and pump. I was, in the spring, cleaning the LT 3-4 times per day. A real PITA. I built a sieve and added to the BD circuit and have never had this problem. That was 2010 and the sieve still performs flawlessly. The image of my LT shows about 3 hours of running, Pretty darned close to failure point.

      I understand that you are not new but there may be some newcomers that have not thought about a leaf trap or pre-filter.

      Just my 2 cents worth. As always and most important is "have fun" this is a hobby.

      Carl

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      Last edited by carlso; 12-14-2017 at 11:06 AM.
      Carl Sowell


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    11. #11
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      I also have bottom drains to pump (ESS6800). I am using a piggy back pump switch from Home Depot. If for some reason I have something break beyond the pump, the float will drop and shut off power to the pump. I will lose about 12-20 inches of water before the pump shuts off.
      I call it my improper filter system 2000 !

    12. #12
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      Carlos – That is an eye opening photo. My pond has run for a year and it does not have string algae. I know it does not mean I will not have it in the future. There is no trees around my pond, only a couple small ones on the neighbor yard but typically they don’t go over my yard unless there is a storm. This is why I did not really think about this issue.

      I really appreciate inputs from everyone and that will help to make my modification better. I don’t want to keep making update every year. I will take your inputs in consideration with the limitations that I have. Two main issues I have now are:

      1. My pond is ~4000 gallon and only has one 2” BD. It’s currently gravity flow to bed filter before going to a pump. The flow is not sufficient to remove stuff at the bottom. That’s why I want to increase the flow to ~4000 gph by connecting it directly to the pump, then pump to a “to be built” shower.
      2. I don’t have enough room to build a sieve between pond and pump. I have to run the plumping ~25ft to do that. The plan is to pump it to a pre-filter then shower, where I have more room.

      Can someone give me inputs on this: I know the poop will be crushed by the propeller, I just don’t know how small it will be. I am planning to have 200 micron sieve screen for the pre-filter then couple layers of fine mat. Do you think this will be sufficient ?

      Thanks,
      hp.

    13. #13
      OCkoiFan's Avatar
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      I think you are fine for now at this stage and level of hobby. Honestly if I ever going to build my last dream pond it would have to incorporate a RDF to ease of maintenance. So save money and go big
      M.Nguyen


    14. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by hp View Post
      Carlos – That is an eye opening photo. My pond has run for a year and it does not have string algae. I know it does not mean I will not have it in the future. There is no trees around my pond, only a couple small ones on the neighbor yard but typically they don’t go over my yard unless there is a storm. This is why I did not really think about this issue.

      I really appreciate inputs from everyone and that will help to make my modification better. I don’t want to keep making update every year. I will take your inputs in consideration with the limitations that I have. Two main issues I have now are:

      1. My pond is ~4000 gallon and only has one 2” BD. It’s currently gravity flow to bed filter before going to a pump. The flow is not sufficient to remove stuff at the bottom. That’s why I want to increase the flow to ~4000 gph by connecting it directly to the pump, then pump to a “to be built” shower.
      2. I don’t have enough room to build a sieve between pond and pump. I have to run the plumping ~25ft to do that. The plan is to pump it to a pre-filter then shower, where I have more room.

      Can someone give me inputs on this: I know the poop will be crushed by the propeller, I just don’t know how small it will be. I am planning to have 200 micron sieve screen for the pre-filter then couple layers of fine mat. Do you think this will be sufficient ?

      Thanks,
      hp.
      a 16" Junior Zakki sieve filter may work great for this tight area, since the sieve is in suction mode, you can build another retro bottom drain ( over the side wall of pond), connected 2 BD together right before the sieve. This was mojor of debris get trapped in the zakki sieve, so less cleaning for pump strainer/leaf trap.
      Tony

    15. #15
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      hp:

      Please, don't take my comments the wrong way but I just hope to make you aware before spending and possibly wasting money as well as others who may be contemplating a pond build next spring.

      If you only have one BD that is 2", you haven't said, or I haven't read, how far the line will be to the pump. I guess I missed any comment about the depth of the pond but I doubt it is enough to provide head pressure for the suction side of the pump. I think you need to ask the experts about whether or not they think you can suck 4000gph through that 2" line of ?? feet. Personally, I do not think so. You know pumps are made to push liquids and not pull them, which is what you would be doing. Geez, I learned something working the oil patch. Just food for thought.

      Carl
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    16. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by OCkoiFan View Post
      I think you are fine for now at this stage and level of hobby. Honestly if I ever going to build my last dream pond it would have to incorporate a RDF to ease of maintenance. So save money and go big
      Good thinking Nguyen ! I would had saved at least $9,000 if I started out with RDF and shower instead other prefilter and some snake oil bacitwist crap. With RDF, I have not touched my filter in months and now mostly chasing tuna on weekends instead of filter cleaning.

    17. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by vipertom1970 View Post
      Good thinking Nguyen ! I would had saved at least $9,000 if I started out with RDF and shower instead other prefilter and some snake oil bacitwist crap. With RDF, I have not touched my filter in months and now mostly chasing tuna on weekends instead of filter cleaning.
      i totally agree. i have the blue eco so have to get my hands dirty every 4 weeks as some poop collects around the waste tray. i have spent so much on snake oil and settlement tanks needing larger water changes and would not go back without sieve or rdf
      Last edited by kevin32; 12-16-2017 at 07:05 PM.

    18. #18
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      M.Nguyen


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