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    Thread: Build me a Sieve filter...... She said

    1. #21
      Billy's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by BroHay View Post
      So, making some progress and decided to take the guess work out of my elevations.

      I might be making the sieve smaller to accommodate a wedge wire screen from a retail unit? Or, I might bite the bullet and try the cloth and give a true account of how it performs

      The picture of my elevations is below.



      Top red line will be the overall height of the sieve.

      Second red line is the height of my water with the way I have it running. I still have over 1.5 inches that I could raise the overall height if I were to restrict the output of my SLO and change my height of the surface skimmer.

      Green line is going to be the height of my weir. 1" below current water line with another 7" of space to accommodate overall water height changes

      ***I can adjust the output from the tank to manually adjust the overall water height. Also when simulating a power outage, the water currently equalizes 1/2" below my weir mark.

      Purple line represents the top of the inlet on my sump tank for the output of the sieve.

      Bottom red line is the top of the paver brick or bottom of the sieve.

      So now I just have to decide where I am going to make my outlet and will probably have to elevate the sieve so I can maintain flow to my sump and not have so much water below whatever wire that is below.

      Adam
      Adam, Take my word for it. Don't use screen. Years ago I decided to put a screen in my savio skimmer. It worked great for about for hours. I almost lost my pump because the screen plugged up and the pump started to run dry. This was a skimmer and not a bottom drain. I would imagine if you used it in your project you woud need to clean it several times a day and several times a night.
      My sieve collects about 2 quarts of muck a week and is very easy to clean.

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    2. #22
      BroHay is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      It's hard to envision how you have things set up with just a description. Can you make a real simple drawing of how things are
      connected and what level they are at based on the pond level?

      The adjustable weir on sieves is vital in maintaining water level in the sieve sump area. The weir adjusts
      to how high (less flow needed over the weir) or low (more flow needed over the weir) based on what water
      level is in the sump and so it can maintain a constant level in the sump to feed the pump.

      Question:

      Attachment 576069

      What is "M1" and "M2"?
      The sieve needs a pump after it or, if trying to gravity flow from sieve, I think the water level of any container after
      it would need to be lower than the water level in the sieve sump.
      Mineralization Tank (M1/M2)
      It is a collection of the waste that is removed from the water. The first stage has no air added to it and the bacteria breaks down the waste to release the nutrients (some of it goes anaerobic).

      M2 is a moving bed with K1 (or similar) and breaks down the waste further to release all the nutrients available in M1 and then dosed back into the grow beds to be consumed by the plants.

      Is still fairly new concept to me, so that is the very basic version but liken it to fertilizer for the plants that is fish safe.

      The outlet of the sieve for waste discharge will be put directly into the M1 tank.

      As for the discharge from the sieve, it will be flowing via gravity into the sump (150 gallon capacity) and then a pump will pick up to a settling tank and then start flowing down through the growbeds to another sump/poly barrell on the return side and then pumped back into the tank (hopefully anyways)

      The picture with the colored lines is actual elevations +/- 1/4" of my inlet/outlets. The inlet for my sump is the top of the pipe and my outlet from the sieve will be from the bottom of the bulkhead fitting with a total volume of 8 inches before a secondary overflow is put into use.

      Tomorrow will be more finished progress shots as things are finalized and out into place to give a better representation of what is actually being done.

      Adam

    3. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
      Adam, Take my word for it. Don't use screen. Years ago I decided to put a screen in my savio skimmer. It worked great for about for hours. I almost lost my pump because the screen plugged up and the pump started to run dry. This was a skimmer and not a bottom drain. I would imagine if you used it in your project you woud need to clean it several times a day and several times a night.
      My sieve collects about 2 quarts of muck a week and is very easy to clean.
      So gut it up and order the ultrasieve add-on/replacement filter 250 micron?

      Anyone like to share some dimensions on the screen size so I can adjust my box size to accommodate?

      Adam

    4. #24
      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
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      Quote Originally Posted by BroHay View Post
      So gut it up and order the ultrasieve add-on/replacement filter 250 micron?

      Anyone like to share some dimensions on the screen size so I can adjust my box size to accommodate?

      Adam
      they come in 200 or 300 micron..zacs is 250 micron.. you be fine with a 200 micron screen for your pond

      and yeah u need to build it for this screen bro

    5. #25
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by BroHay View Post
      Mineralization Tank (M1/M2)
      It is a collection of the waste that is removed from the water. The first stage has no air added to it and the bacteria breaks down the waste to release the nutrients (some of it goes anaerobic).

      M2 is a moving bed with K1 (or similar) and breaks down the waste further to release all the nutrients available in M1 and then dosed back into the grow beds to be consumed by the plants.

      Is still fairly new concept to me, so that is the very basic version but liken it to fertilizer for the plants that is fish safe.

      The outlet of the sieve for waste discharge will be put directly into the M1 tank.

      As for the discharge from the sieve, it will be flowing via gravity into the sump (150 gallon capacity) and then a pump will pick up to a settling tank and then start flowing down through the growbeds to another sump/poly barrell on the return side and then pumped back into the tank (hopefully anyways)

      The picture with the colored lines is actual elevations +/- 1/4" of my inlet/outlets. The inlet for my sump is the top of the pipe and my outlet from the sieve will be from the bottom of the bulkhead fitting with a total volume of 8 inches before a secondary overflow is put into use.

      Tomorrow will be more finished progress shots as things are finalized and out into place to give a better representation of what is actually being done.

      Adam
      I'm not familiar with mineralization tanks but can say with certainty that the sieve sump won't gravity flow anything
      without the water level in the next container, whatever it is, unless it is below the level in the sieve sump:

      Name:  Image2.jpg
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      --Steve



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    6. #26
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      This is helping me think everything out....

      As for the MT tanks, clean out would be put into 5 gallon bucket and then added for breakdown. Addition from MT2 would also be dosed manually. I am not ready to have it auto dose so it is going g to be decoupled from the system until more familiar.

      Tank->sieve->sump 1->pump 1->RFF(settling)->Static Upflow->MBBR 1->MBBR 2->Deep Water Culture beds->sump 2 - >pump 2->tank return.

      Drawing coming shortly....

      Adam
      Last edited by BroHay; 12-16-2017 at 06:06 AM.

    7. #27
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      Adam

    8. #28
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by BroHay View Post


      Adam
      Since the sieve and sump are connected and there is no weir on the sieve to stop the flow to the sieve sump if the pump
      is shut off, the sieve sump will fill to the level of the pond and overflow the sump #1 container. Sump #1 would continue
      to overflow until it empties the pond to below the sieve weir level.
      I think sump #1 needs to be as tall as the sieve weir and deep enough to be able to drop its water level below the sieve sump
      level in order to allow the sieve sump to gravity flow to it. Until sump #1 drops below the water level in sieve sump the water
      won't flow from the sieve.
      But can the pond and other filters hold that extra capacity of sump #1 till it's able to drop low enough to start the sieve
      running to it?

      There's so many different pieces that all have to work perfectly together and I'm not sure I'd trust everything to never fail.
      --Steve



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    9. #29
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      Not reflected in drawings, but accounted for....

      The water level when the power goes out in the tank still gives me 3" from overfill in the sump. That is with my original expansion tied in right now. So the top of my sump tank (175 gallons) is still higher than the water level when power is on.

      So, the water level will rise in the sieve somewhere @ or maybe below the weir height shown (still have approx 7.5" to top of the overall unit).

      The problem will still need to be addressed on the the sump 2/pump2 return to tank to make sure that there is enough volume to accommodate equalization which will result in me digging into the ground......but I'll have all of the outlets of the DWC beds at same elevation with necessary from 1/4"/ft to minimize any solids build up in the pipe. Anticipate approx 30 gallons give/take.

      Adam

    10. #30
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      Do you have valves to restrict the flow over the weir if need be? I think the sieve sump would
      normally run above the screen since it's going to naturally try and equalize itself to the higher
      level in the pond.

      There's so many different things to balance I think it should be a real challenge. I wish you luck
      and hope it runs as planned!
      --Steve



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    11. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      Do you have valves to restrict the flow over the weir if need be? I think the sieve sump would
      normally run above the screen since it's going to naturally try and equalize itself to the higher
      level in the pond.

      There's so many different things to balance I think it should be a real challenge. I wish you luck
      and hope it runs as planned!
      Yes,

      2" ball valve on the SLO outlet and a PVC configuration that allow me to adjust the height depending upon how slow/fast.

      Thought of combing the two outlets from tank into one inlet.....

      Yes there are NUMEROUS things to work in concert, but hopefully it'll make sense soon.....

      Adam
      Last edited by BroHay; 12-16-2017 at 09:11 AM.

    12. #32
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      AquaForte III screen size
      Name:  screen one.jpg
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      Name:  screen two.jpg
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      40 ounces of muck collected in a week.
      Name:  mum.jpg
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    13. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
      AquaForte III screen size
      Name:  screen one.jpg
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      Name:  screen two.jpg
Views: 865
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      40 ounces of muck collected in a week.
      Name:  mum.jpg
Views: 863
Size:  9.7 KB
      Thank you Billy!

      I had found the technical specs and it had included the polypropylene thickness. I had deducted that thickness (x2) from the overall width of the unit and got 13 9/16". So close :tup:

      The length was a bit more tricky and was just going to reduce the overall length to 30 inches and just adjust the outlet and build shelf when in hand.

      It was hard, but did not even open the mesh screen package yesterday and sent it back..... Locked in now, even though the screen is twice as much as my build total now without the mesh screen. I'll be in around 600 if I can't find one cheaper...

      Adam
      Last edited by BroHay; 12-17-2017 at 04:56 AM.

    14. #34
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      I built a sieve for my last pond and the easy part is constructing everything until you get to the floating weir part. It never worked smoothly for me so I’m interested to see your design to see if it makes me want to build another. Looking great so far.

    15. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by JGS107 View Post
      I built a sieve for my last pond and the easy part is constructing everything until you get to the floating weir part. It never worked smoothly for me so I’m interested to see your design to see if it makes me want to build another. Looking great so far.
      I am anxious to to see how it all works. Though it is for a specific set of conditions that the adjustable weir would mitigate.....

      Wedge wire procured (via member primitive)

      Smaller footprint constructed.

      Just have to get some waterproof glue for all my seams that will then be siliconed for added peace of mind.

      I'll paint it in two sections so I can get good access to all corners when finally assembled leaving me access to silicone the remaining seams.


      Adam

    16. #36
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      Well, one step closer to running. Thought I would give a dry fit and also show more of what I am doing.

      This represents the top of my pipe for the inlet on the sump tank and will be the bottom of my outlet giving me @ minimum 2 5/8" in the bottom of the sieve.


      Skimmer/SLO output which will go into the sieve with the bottom of the bulkhead fitting at the line previously shown.


      Sump will be rotated 90 and the inlet farthest away is what my elevation is set to.



      Collection for M1/M2



      Showing skimmer/slo and how clear water is becoming


      Current inlet between 23-25GPM


      Since I elected to set on top of cinder blocks to minimize having so much water in the sump of the sieve, line is 7.5" down where water line is at running before I even simulate a power outage



      Finally ready to coat with pond Armour. In two sections so all I have to do is lay down a bead of glue/silicone and then put together and screw to hold together and make sure I check all seams to have no leaks.





      I already did all the seams before coating, and will do again prior to final assembly.

      Adam
      Last edited by BroHay; 12-19-2017 at 07:07 AM.

    17. #37
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      Started first coat. As for being a mirror finish, should probably be working in a different environment b/c there is plenty of debris trapped.....





      Adam

    18. #38
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      Finally got it warm enough to cure the waterproofing (x5 days later for second coat. Guess I put too denatured alcohol and made too thin/put on too thick.....

      Leak test.....
      I forgot to take the cutaway pic to show how I had things. Hopefully it holds so I do not have to re-do to be able to show.


      With sieve screen installed and pushed the rubber out approx 1/4" each side to eliminate the gap along the edges.



      The lower line is the height of water before going over weir.


      Merry Christmas to all!

      Adam

    19. #39
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      cool and merry Christmas bro!

    20. #40
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      Back to the drawing board.

      I plumbed everything up and had it level and all set to go. I was excited b/c I had the same flow coming in and thought was golden until the water equalized and all flow stopped.

      I was approximately 7 1/4" down from going over my weir which is within 1/2" of what I raised the sieve by using the cmu block. Instead of having 12 or so inches of water in the sump, I was trying 4-6". Was thinking that the flow would overcome being about 13 inches below where the water level was set.

      So, now I am going to cut some of the top off and then reduce the weir height to see if I can salvage or learn what not to do and build over?

      Not the ending I was hoping for, but learning at the same time.

      Now maybe the light will go off and calculating head pressures/psi/etc will start to make sense.

      Adam
      Last edited by BroHay; 12-26-2017 at 07:53 PM.

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