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  • Results 1 to 15 of 15

    Thread: My Farm Attempt in Middle East

    1. #1
      Querorz is offline Junior Member
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      My Farm Attempt in the Middle East

      Hey guys,

      Fatih here, from Turkey. I am living in a semi-arid city called Gaziantep. As a result of being born in this no-water land, water and fishes is a mental obsession for me. I have some money enough to have an OK life. I am an architect.

      But i want to spare some of my investment to have a job that i will actually love and enjoy being at. Unlike construction work.


      Here you can't sell an actual japanese prize winner, 10 grand worth koi for 100 bucks. Well, we have rich people here but there is no Koi or pond culture in this country. I am sure a 10 grand worth Turkish shepherd dog would be just an ugly stray for you guys .

      So , here my aim is going to be breeding comparatively cheaper koi and even goldfish and market them. Low quality fish for sure but in large quantities. I have experience with many species even though not with Kois.

      My question is how feasible is my attempt? Here are the questions wandering in my mind:

      1- I will probably have a 1 acre land to build this farm on(you can't imagine how high land prices are here). Here it's not crazy cold. We have some ice on lakes in winter but that ice usually goes away when sun comes up. Now, what percent of this land should be open ponds and what percent should be somehow closed?
      2- Why do i need closed spaces? To keep them breeding?
      3- How much water do i need? A well would give me 100 tons of water a day here(30,000 gallons). I have no chance to build this farm next to a river because we have no river nearby.
      4- I watch koi farm videos and i see there is a water inlet that works 24/7 . Is that just a water circulation like a filter or do they keep adding fresh water all the time?
      5- What questions should i answer first to plan my farm?
      6- What sources should i use to plan my farm?


      Thanks.
      Last edited by Querorz; 12-09-2017 at 06:00 PM.

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    2. #2
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      Hi Fatih, I was in Istanbul last week on business...and I was dealing with someone called Fatih!

      Have you kept any koi / goldfish before?

      Here in the UK I know of one koi Farm that’s on around an acre and they do quite well, it may give you some ideas...

      http://www.byerkoifarm.co.uk/2017/09...tives-set.html
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    3. #3
      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
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      Quote Originally Posted by Essex Koi View Post
      Hi Fatih, I was in Istanbul last week on business...and I was dealing with someone called Fatih!

      Have you kept any koi / goldfish before?

      Here in the UK I know of one koi Farm that’s on around an acre and they do quite well, it may give you some ideas...

      http://www.byerkoifarm.co.uk/2017/09...tives-set.html
      that is really cool. whole family is involved

    4. #4
      Essex Koi is offline Senior Member
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      Nice folk too, I bought my Tancho from them a couple of months back when I visited their place.
      Main pond 4000 US Gallon, 22 Koi. Oase Proficlear Premium + Bio Module, Bitron 120 w UVC, Bakki Shower, Dura 7+ ashp. Grow on tank 600 Gallons with Eazypod Automatic and 70 litre K1 biochamber.

    5. #5
      Querorz is offline Junior Member
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      Thanks Essex Koi. Hehe. Nice coincidence. Not the most common name here.

      Yes. I have kept koi and goldfish before. Well, my experience with them in ponds were that they were super hardy and also great growers. Without any feeding they got super huge in my pond.

      That was a good link. Thank you.

      I am hoping to get little more help by other members here.

    6. #6
      Koigrl's Avatar
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      Fatih, welcome to Koiphen!
      I'm sure we are all very interested to watch this enormous project come to life. Pls. take photos!
      I have a question for you.
      What is the market for your fish?
      Wishing you the best in your new venture!



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    7. #7
      Querorz is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Koigrl View Post
      Fatih, welcome to Koiphen!
      I'm sure we are all very interested to watch this enormous project come to life. Pls. take photos!
      I have a question for you.
      What is the market for your fish?
      Wishing you the best in your new venture!
      Thank you very much Koigri. Now, when i see you using “enormous” word that brought another question. What kind of a breeding potential can i expect from a 1/4 acre or 1/2 or 1 acre farm? I would love to hear some numbers from some farm owners. I really didn’t think 1 acre would be considered even big.

      Koigri is your question how much i will sell the fish for? I can sell a plain 2 tail goldfish for 30 cents each for 3 inch size. I could triple that for Oranda. But i don’t know if Oranda production is more challenging. I don’t know about Koi prices. But i know stores sell them for twice, three times more than goldfish. But these are the fish you wouldn’t even consider a koi. Very low quality. I know there is a small market for high class japanese kois. Seems like at first i will rely on goldfish. My friend -a regional fish whosaler- guarantees he can sell 20,000 of my goldfish a month easy. And this is only 1 person speaking.

    8. #8
      Koigrl's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Querorz View Post
      Thank you very much Koigri. Now, when i see you using “enormous” word that brought another question. What kind of a breeding potential can i expect from a 1/4 acre or 1/2 or 1 acre farm? I would love to hear some numbers from some farm owners. I really didn’t think 1 acre would be considered even big.

      Koigri is your question how much i will sell the fish for? I can sell a plain 2 tail goldfish for 30 cents each for 3 inch size. I could triple that for Oranda. But i don’t know if Oranda production is more challenging. I don’t know about Koi prices. But i know stores sell them for twice, three times more than goldfish. But these are the fish you wouldn’t even consider a koi. Very low quality. I know there is a small market for high class japanese kois. Seems like at first i will rely on goldfish. My friend -a regional fish whosaler- guarantees he can sell 20,000 of my goldfish a month easy. And this is only 1 person speaking.
      Fatih, You answered my question. By what is your market? I meant who is going to buy your goldfish? I see now that you will be the grower and other people will buy in bulk to sell to customer. I have a no-fish-for-sale koi "operation". I am trying to breed a particular kind of koi. This last fall, we harvested 7,000 4" koi and it was overwhelming! My pond held about 150,000 gallons. I ran a lot of air, I don't know the horsepower of the pumps, but I had six diffusers bubbling along the 135' length of the pond. I pumped water from a dedicated well 24/7, about 10 gallons a minute, (same amount of water flowing out) in order to keep the water quality good. Even so and even with grasses growing at the edges, sometimes the water became polluted with too much ammonia. When that happened, I stopped feeding, and doubled up the water flowing in by stealing water from another well. I think the key to how many fish you can grow depends on how clean and how aerated you can keep your water.

      I don't know if these pictures will answer any questions or be of interest, but... I visited Kodama Koi Farm in Maui, Hawaii about 10 years ago. They imported fish from Japanese breeders (still do) and sold them at auction to individual customers.
      Attached Images Attached Images       



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

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    9. #9
      Matt24's Avatar
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      Welcome to the forum Fatih. That sounds quite challenging. I don't farm for a living. I just like to breed a few koi in the back yard for fun. So I can't offer much advice that relates to an operation of the size that you have in mind. But here are a few thoughts anyway.

      One option to consider may be to keep your main job and pursue the fish breeding on a smaller scale like a big hobby or a part time job. That way you could test the market while you perfect your craft. And you may learn lots of tips to help you decide how to best use your available land when you do expand.

      With limited land, one consideration is the most money's worth of fish in a small area. A good koi could bring many, many times more than goldfish, but only if there is a buyer. It has far more body mass and requires more pond space, but you need fewer of them.

      One advantage of covered areas may be to increase humidity and reduce evaporation in an arid environment. But you may have enough well water that that won't be an issue. The farms around here are uncovered for the most part. Humidity varies a lot, but tends more to be dry.

      In the amateur breeder's forum, there are many examples of small backyard hobby efforts, with the exception of Koigrl's which is much larger with several big ponds. Best wishes on your goal.

    10. #10
      kevin32 is offline Inactivated
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      Quote Originally Posted by Koigrl View Post
      Fatih, You answered my question. By what is your market? I meant who is going to buy your goldfish? I see now that you will be the grower and other people will buy in bulk to sell to customer. I have a no-fish-for-sale koi "operation". I am trying to breed a particular kind of koi. This last fall, we harvested 7,000 4" koi and it was overwhelming! My pond held about 150,000 gallons. I ran a lot of air, I don't know the horsepower of the pumps, but I had six diffusers bubbling along the 135' length of the pond. I pumped water from a dedicated well 24/7, about 10 gallons a minute, (same amount of water flowing out) in order to keep the water quality good. Even so and even with grasses growing at the edges, sometimes the water became polluted with too much ammonia. When that happened, I stopped feeding, and doubled up the water flowing in by stealing water from another well. I think the key to how many fish you can grow depends on how clean and how aerated you can keep your water.

      I don't know if these pictures will answer any questions or be of interest, but... I visited Kodama Koi Farm in Maui, Hawaii about 10 years ago. They imported fish from Japanese breeders (still do) and sold them at auction to individual customers.
      i remember talking to Kodama at my first koi show I went to. he was bragging about how much better growing the koi larger was after moving to Hawaii. good climate seems to help costs

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    11. #11
      davidjensen's Avatar
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      If this is to be a business you need to figure out the level of income you need to stay in business ie a business plan. You need to project how many fish you need to sell and at what price to make the investment in supplies and your time worthy of persuining. Otherwise it’s a labor of love as you will labor many hours and learn many things and some of those the hard way.
      Need more Koi

    12. #12
      Querorz is offline Junior Member
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      Koigrl , your post was so helpful. Thank you. It’s amazing to hear even though you pumped like 1:13 of the total volume every day to the pond, you still had problems. And not even with so many fish to my understanding.

      Matt thanks for your message. Pursuing fish breeding in a small scale is not as easy as it is for you Americans guys.I live in an apartment with no garden. Here land is so expensive. So i can’t just buy one to pursue my hobby. Even if i could, i would have to spend so much money to start it even on a small scale. You need walls around your property here. Otherwise it will be broken into in no time. Even walls are not enough. Covered areas might be a better idea but i heard concerns like baby fish needs light to get their color.

      Kevin valuable info. Thanks.

      Thanks David.

      Currently it seems like i am not going anywhere with this business plan. Apart from geographical difficulties i am facing the reality of marketing problems. Koi and goldfish are the cheapest fish here. There is like 1 in a million customers who wants to buy graded koi with real good prices. The rest just wants to buy a “pond fish”(as called here) to fulfill the requirement of owning a pond. Do you know how much an ordinary 3-4 inch koi is sold for to aquarium stores? 80 cents... Plus there are so many breeders struggling to get their payment. So, after all, realities seem to have won. This part of the world sucks. You should know you are so lucky.

    13. #13
      Koigrl's Avatar
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      Hi, Fatih, Thanks for your heartfelt reply. Clearly it was a good call to check out your plan, even though what you learned is disappointing. I hope you get an opportunity to work with fish in the future and that you'll hang out on this forum just for fun.
      All the best,



      Ki Shusui Project : 300k Challenge : 500k Build : Flock Spawn Jamboree : Our Ki Midori Champions




      Ten minute video of Russ Peters sexing our future ki shusui oyagoi. : http://youtu.be/AhROs1cjC18

      Updated for the 2018 Harvest: What is "ki shusui?" Short version http://www.kishusui.com

      Twelve seconds that are the entire point of the last seven years!
      https://youtu.be/zNqTJgM3lpY

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    14. #14
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      There was a member of the forum many years ago named Brett Rowley, who was a breeder of some decent koi. He made the statement on more than one occasion that to make a million dollars raising koi you needed to start with two million. In his case, he had other fish, like bass that he was raising that he fed the culls to, reducing the cost of feed for those other fish, while keeping the numbers down. He finally gave up on koi.
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    15. #15
      Matt24's Avatar
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      Sorry to hear that Fatih. But it is good that you have assessed the reality. Here in middle America, hundreds of miles from any coast, koi business and availability are not as good as other places. Still we are indeed blessed. I do know a few koi breeders and koi retailers and some that do both in this part of the country, but even here, most of the ones that keep at it for years either have a separate "main" job or are retired from one. Most do not depend on their koi business for their livelihood. There are exceptions, but very few. It seems like it would be especially challenging to make a good income doing something that a lot of people do for a hobby (albeit less seriously and on a smaller scale).

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