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  • Results 1 to 16 of 16

    Thread: Help with ammonia and ph!!

    1. #1
      Zoomiah is offline Junior Member
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      Help with ammonia and ph!!

      Okay Iím new here so please bear with me. My pond is only 5 months old. Recently my ph has started to drop and the ammonia has gone sky high. Fish seem okay but Iím still very worried that Iíll wake up and they will be dead. The pond is 1500 gallons and i have 3 Koi ranging from 15 inches to 20 inches. I was feeding a lot up until about a week ago ( 4 times a day) and nothing changed besides that we got a lot of rain. I live in Florida so the temp is still plenty warm. Iíve stopped feeding till i get this figured out. The water perimeters are
      Ph 6
      Ammonia 3 ( not .3)
      Nitrite 0
      Water temp 76

      I did a filter cleaning on sat and it seemed to make it worse. I used the recommended does of the petsmart ammonia remover and ammonia went up since then. I did about a 10% water change on Sunday and the ph and ammonia didnít move at all. My filter is a Eazy Pod

      Iím wondering if the ph drop somehow killed off the Bactria that break down the ammonia. But I️ feel stuck because l can seem to get this ammonia to go down.

      My city water perimeters are
      Ph 7
      Ammonia 2!! Not .2
      Any advice would be super helpful. i have ameqel pond plus coming in the mail tomorrow so I️ hope that does the trick on the ammonia. And l want to start buffering the pond to raise the ph but with the ammonia levels where they are l know it will kill the fish. Please help

    2. #2
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      You may want to get a different type of test kit to double check those numbers.

    3. #3
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Zoomiah View Post
      Okay Iím new here so please bear with me. My pond is only 5 months old. Recently my ph has started to drop and the ammonia has gone sky high. Fish seem okay but Iím still very worried that Iíll wake up and they will be dead. The pond is 1500 gallons and i have 3 Koi ranging from 15 inches to 20 inches. I was feeding a lot up until about a week ago ( 4 times a day) and nothing changed besides that we got a lot of rain. I live in Florida so the temp is still plenty warm. Iíve stopped feeding till i get this figured out. The water perimeters are
      Ph 6
      Ammonia 3 ( not .3)
      Nitrite 0
      Water temp 76

      I did a filter cleaning on sat and it seemed to make it worse. I used the recommended does of the petsmart ammonia remover and ammonia went up since then. I did about a 10% water change on Sunday and the ph and ammonia didnít move at all. My filter is a Eazy Pod

      Iím wondering if the ph drop somehow killed off the Bactria that break down the ammonia. But I️ feel stuck because l can seem to get this ammonia to go down.

      My city water perimeters are
      Ph 7
      Ammonia 2!! Not .2
      Any advice would be super helpful. i have ameqel pond plus coming in the mail tomorrow so I️ hope that does the trick on the ammonia. And l want to start buffering the pond to raise the ph but with the ammonia levels where they are l know it will kill the fish. Please help
      Sorry for your troubles but welcome to Koiphen!
      What kind of test are you using to measure the ammonia?
      Most drip and test strip type tests measure both NH3 and NH4. When you add ammonia remover type products
      it's just changing NH3 (dangerous) to NH4 (less dangerous). It doesn't remove the ammonia, just makes it less harmful
      but the most test kits will still detect it. I'd get a Seachem Ammonia Alert card which will only measure "free" or NH3 (toxic)
      ammonia:

      https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000255R5G...a-310436994159

      Know too that ammonia products only last for about 48 hours before needing to be reapplied.

      How much has your pH changed? And how much does it change from morning to late afternoon?
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

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    4. #4
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      It sounds like you've had a Ph crash and yes, your assumption about the bio bacteria dieing due to the crash is pretty much correct. You'll need to get a Kh drop test kit and test the Kh. It needs to be maintained at 100 or more with 140-150 being very good. This will buffer your Ph and maintain it more steadily. Using baking soda is the way to raise the Kh economically. This will be required adding every time you do a weekly or more often water change. You want to maintain the Ph as steady as you can. The actual number above 7.4 or so. I agree with ICU2 though, get the ammonia test card and also a drop test for ammonia to verify those readings. If they truly are that high, then you don't want to raise the Ph to quickly or at all until you reduce the ammo level down. the fish seem to be doing okay for the moment due to the low Ph keeping the ammonia as ammonium which won't harm the fish. Raising the Ph to suddenly and I've actually seen where fish begin to jump and flash and then die rather quickly as the ammonia, when converted to free ammonia will cause the fish to do a slow burn of the gills and skin. It's not a pretty sight so move slowly and cautiously. I would recommend at least a 50% water change daily for the next 3-5 days to lower the ammonia and increase the Ph at the same time.
      Mike

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    5. #5
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      Thanks so much for the input everyone. A quick update. I’ve since done a 20% water change and added some salt along with. Prime and have slowly started to add baking soda to raise the kh and in turn raise the ph slightly. Today when I️ rested the water it was
      Ph 7
      Ammonia 2
      Nitrite 0
      Kh still only one drop
      Fish seem to be swimming a little more but I’m scared that the raise in ph will make the ammonia more harmful to the fish. So I️ will continue adding a binder every 48 hrs until the ammonia drops. I’m nervous about doing a water change that large. Please let me know if I’m on the right track. I am thinking about adding baking soda daily and binder every 2 days along with doing 25% water change every 2 days. Any help is appreciated. I’m new here and just trying to keep my Koi alive. The low kh seems to have caused the crash maybe?

    6. #6
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      I had an Eazypod only on my pond and earlier this year I had a huge spike in Ammonia, I did a 50% change three times in three consecutive days. I added decholrinator of course and the fish were fine. The high ammonia level is going to be a lot more of an issue than the water change. Unless there’s an issue with your water supply, it shouldn’t be an issue.

      When I rebuilt my pond in August from 1,000 Gallons to 4,000 Gallons, only 500 gallons of the original pond water went in and zero issues.

      Also in the K1 micro section in the middle, have you removed the media and cleaned it out at all? You won’t believe the amount of crap that builds up in the bottom. I now do mine every 3 months and vacuum it out.
      4000 US Gallon Pond, 14 Koi.

    7. #7
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      You can add a bit more baking soda, it won't hurt to go up a few KH units at a time. Have you measured your tapwater KH? My city KH is six drops at a minimum. You want your KH to be in the range of 7 to 10, but as Mike says not all at once. It's probably a good idea like what you're doing, and some Prime when you are adding baking soda because that will keep the ammonia town and reading zero, and making the baking soda and rising KH/pH safe..
      I don't recommend using any other product for ammonia control other than Prime or SAFE. This will blind ammonia, chloramines, nitrite, nitrate, heavy metals, and does not affect the pH. Other chlorine removers can have an adverse effect on the pH, in other words they are not buffered so the pH goes down as the ammonia is consumed by of Bio filters
      Keep us posted on your water parameters


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    8. #8
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      As Steve (icu2) stated, get the SeaChem Ammonia Alert Card. It will show how much of the ammonia is toxic. You want the toxic amount to be zero, and that can be accomplished with the Prime, even though the drop test may be reading very high. As the pH is increased with the baking soda, you may find that the toxic amount goes up as the balance between toxic and non-toxic is pH sensitive, but the Prime should keep it at zero, if there is enough Prime in the pond. The biggest concern with adding the baking soda, if the ammonia is bound is keeping from raising the pH too quickly. Try to raise it just a few tenths of a point per day, but once it is about 8, then you can add as much baking soda as you want to bring the KH up to the 8-10 drops, or even higher. The bio bugs will repopulate much quicker with a high KH.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    9. #9
      Zoomiah is offline Junior Member
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      Quick update. I did I 40% water change yesterday along with adding prime again and baking soda. I also removed all the media from the easy Pod and vacuumed out underneath it. There was a ton of gunk. The water parameters today are.
      Ph 7.2
      Ammonia 2
      Nitrite .25
      Kh 2 drops.

      Going to keep adding bs to try to raise the kh in hopes that it helps just start the Bactria and continue with the prime to keep the ammonia bonded. I’m happy to see that some of the nitrites have shown up. Thanks for all the help I’ll keep you guys updated.

    10. #10
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      Great, sounds good, hope it goes well. Iíd mark up on the calendar to get the gunk out again in the Eazypod in 3 months time.
      4000 US Gallon Pond, 14 Koi.

    11. #11
      Zoomiah is offline Junior Member
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      Okay here’s another update. I’m kinda stumped. I’ve been doing waterchanges every other day for the past week along with raising the ph and kh and can’t seem to get the Ammonia to come down below 2. Any advice is helpful.
      Ph 7.8
      Ammonia 2
      Nitrite .25
      Nitrate 5
      Kh 4 drops

      How long does it take for the Bactria to really start eating up the ammonia. I’m going through a ton of prime it feels like lol

    12. #12
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      If the pH crash killed most of the established bio filter it can take at least 6-8 weeks to
      reestablish it, depending on the pond temp. I'd keep monitoring the KH because as the bio
      filter matures it will continue to force the KH lower.
      --Steve
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    13. #13
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      edit...

    14. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by Zoomiah View Post
      Okay here’s another update. I’m kinda stumped. I’ve been doing waterchanges every other day for the past week along with raising the ph and kh and can’t seem to get the Ammonia to come down below 2. Any advice is helpful.
      Ph 7.8
      Ammonia 2
      Nitrite .25
      Nitrate 5
      Kh 4 drops

      How long does it take for the Bactria to really start eating up the ammonia. I’m going through a ton of prime it feels like lol
      Did you ever get the Seachem Ammonia Alert card? If not, you are seeing an ammonia reading b/c of a false positive when using Prime.
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member



    15. #15
      Zoomiah is offline Junior Member
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      Hey y’all just a quick update. I’ve been doing water changes and adding prime and bs regularly to get my normals back to normal. So far here are my readings.
      Ph 8.3
      Ammonia 1
      Nitrite 0
      Nitrate 5
      Kh 8 drops

      Still trying to get the ammonia to zero but it’s been at 1 for about 2 days now hoping it drops. Still haven’t seen a nitrite spike. And yes I’ve been using the schream total and free test. Free is zero total is 1
      Thanks

    16. #16
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      You will continue to have a tough time on this one as you keep having to change water that apparently has a level of 2.0ppm ammonia. Getting it reduced to 1.0ppm is great and shows your bio level is working to some degree so far. BUT, again, as long as you have to use that source water, you'll have a tough time getting it under control UNLESS you increase your bio capacity to roughly twice what you currently have. Is this EasyPod still the only filtration you have? If so, keeping it really clean of debris/mulm is paramount to at least hoping for success of any kind. I would say the frequency of cleaning would be totally dependent upon the season and how large a fish load you have and how much you feed. There's an old saying in the hobby, you don't feed the fish, you feed the filter. That sounds very valid in your situation especially.
      Mike

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