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    Thread: can I fit all this in my 10x10' F.pit, and is this the best way to do it?

    1. #1
      tom66 is offline Member
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      can I fit all this in my 10x10' F.pit, and is this the best way to do it?

      this is a sketch for the filter pit I am now building, I think I can fit four 275 gal tanks ( or I may even go for the 330 gal as they seem to have the same L & W dimensions), a pump and all the 4" pipes necessary (2 from the 2 BDs and one from skimmer) (and 1 or 2 going back to pond). As you can see I haven't yet decided where the skimmer line is going to go, and whether it should have its own pump.
      The 3 circles are 30 or 55 gal barrels cut in half and buried in the bottom ground floor, placed in correspondence of the 4 clean-outs. Their purpose is to host the sump pump when I clean the tanks.
      As for TPRs I haven't accounted for those pipes but if I end up having any I don't think they'd take much room on that side of the pit (pond is on the right side of the picture)
      Can some of you please comment here and tell me if my plan is wrong or if it can all be done better. I have never done anything close to this before and I have never seen one of these tanks other than in pictures so I could easily be wrong in something !
      Attached Images Attached Images  

    2. #2
      bobsmith is offline Member
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      It won't fit. Maybe in theory it looks like it will. If you actually draw out the 4" sweeps, cleanouts, valves,etc to scale, it won't. If carefully planned, it could fit in a 12x12. But even then, there wouldn't be much space to spare.

      That is one of the primary issues with settling tanks. They take up a lot of room.

    3. #3
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      I agree with bobsmith. Not trying to make fun of anything here, but to be honest, I wouldn't even bother trying to do all this. With all the manufactured products on the market, you could keep the same size footprint of 10'x10' and with either a sieve and pressure filter or simply an RDF, you could actually also have room to walk around. Even in a 12'x12' you'd be hard pressed to get into it to do any work/cleaning/maintenance. sometimes trying to force fit things and use old school DIY materials, you'll definitely save money up front, but you won't over the long haul. And, depending on how long it takes before you throw your hands up in disgust and decide to change to the proper equipment you'll spend the same as you would now PLUS all the time/materials it took to build this monstrosity, during which time you could have been sitting back in a chair with a cold one tossing food to your fish and a conversation with family/friends while you enjoy the tranquility of the pond and the minimal upkeep you'll need to keep it running in top condition. I'm not trying to sell you anything except providing some knowledge based on "been there, done that" experience from myself and others we've rescued from these nightmares.
      Mike

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    4. #4
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      Lay everything out on the lawn and dry fit all the piping and valves. They take a lot more room than you would think.

    5. #5
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      You have two totes for BD settlement tanks, what are the other two for?

      And how many gallons is your pond going to be?

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      tom66 is offline Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
      You have two totes for BD settlement tanks, what are the other two for?

      And how many gallons is your pond going to be?
      Bio Filters with K1 (moving beds) , 44 or 50K I think

    7. #7
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      At the very least if you want a pit, I would swap out the settlement chambers for sieves. It would cost more, but free up a lot of room and produce better results than the chambers.



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      Quote Originally Posted by jimfish98 View Post
      At the very least if you want a pit, I would swap out the settlement chambers for sieves. It would cost more, but free up a lot of room and produce better results than the chambers.
      I know that. I am trying to do it with SC for budget reasons, I hope to be able to buy a sieve down the road, but I am trying the cheaper way at first

    9. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by tom66 View Post
      I know that. I am trying to do it with SC for budget reasons, I hope to be able to buy a sieve down the road, but I am trying the cheaper way at first
      The common phrase here is the cheapest pond you build is the one you build right the first time. Short term you save some money, but spend more long term. It is a lesson a few of us have learned the hard way. I could probably get 2-3k back from my errors if I did it the right way the first time.



      Diamond Lifetime Member #95!
      Just because its not a Great Koi doesn't mean its not a Great Koi...Me circa 2013

    10. #10
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      Jimfish is SSOOO right on so many fronts. So far, basically everyone who has posted is basically saying the same things.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    11. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by tom66 View Post
      I know that. I am trying to do it with SC for budget reasons, I hope to be able to buy a sieve down the road, but I am trying the cheaper way at first
      i started with a 275 tote on my 3800 gallon pond. the settlement was a pain to clean . I know it may not be cheap for sieve. but there is a used one on here for $900 . if you do stick with the settlement tanks o would at least get ones with a come shaped bottom with drain at the bottom. draining 2 330 gallon settlement tanks at least once a week gets pretty old.

    12. #12
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      I didn't see how many gallons your pond is going to be, maybe I missed that.
      BUT?
      two totes for bio is probably way over kill, unless you already have a ton of K-1 it will cost you as much as a sieve would.
      SO
      being in a warm location and not needing to worry about winters I would
      use a Aqua Forte Ultra Sieve 111, then pump like a Evolution ES 8500, Some sort of UV then split the flow to a DIY feather Rock Shower and two 55 gallon DIY Sand/Gravel filters.
      This would take much less room than 4 totes and filter much better.

    13. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
      I didn't see how many gallons your pond is going to be, maybe I missed that.
      BUT?
      two totes for bio is probably way over kill, unless you already have a ton of K-1 it will cost you as much as a sieve would.
      SO
      being in a warm location and not needing to worry about winters I would
      use a Aqua Forte Ultra Sieve 111, then pump like a Evolution ES 8500, Some sort of UV then split the flow to a DIY feather Rock Shower and two 55 gallon DIY Sand/Gravel filters.
      This would take much less room than 4 totes and filter much better.
      44 or 50 thousand gallons

    14. #14
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      Well, if that's the actual planned size for the pond, then you are WAY UNDER FILTERED. Did you mean 4400-5000gal instead of 44000-50000gal?
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      Well, if that's the actual planned size for the pond, then you are WAY UNDER FILTERED. Did you mean 4400-5000gal instead of 44000-50000gal?
      I thought that filter is in relation to quantity of fish, or better inches of fish. In my case my plan is to put very very few inches of fish, That's why I think the filter plan might work. If I can keep construction costs low I will have money for a sieve, but I can't tell that yet.

    16. #16
      kevin32's Avatar
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      so are you building a 4400 or 44,000 gallon pond? a 44,000 gallon pond with even a liner will cost a fortune. a 4400 gallon pond doesn't cost much at all and that filtration would work, but then the question is why. the biofilter will get dirty after the settlement tanks and need cleaned as well. I would encourage you to fit the sieve into the budget. diy shower can be done with home depot totes and feather rock for cheap also. or other route is 2 55 barrels after the sieve with k1 or k3. my coworker is using ultra sieve to 2 55 gallon barrels. one has k1 and other has k3. water is clear and he loves his setup

    17. #17
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by tom66 View Post
      I thought that filter is in relation to quantity of fish, or better inches of fish. In my case my plan is to put very very few inches of fish, That's why I think the filter plan might work. If I can keep construction costs low I will have money for a sieve, but I can't tell that yet.
      It also has to do with turnover ratio. Your "fish load" plan has been stated numerous times but unfortunately, to no avail in the end. Fish grow, especially koi. Also, my statement about being underfiltered has also got to do with how many bottom drains/skimmers being used. A pond that size would need roughly 8-10 bottom drains and 4 skimmers just to keep up with maintaining the pond with a clean floor and decent to good water quality. Simply throwing a few totes at a design doesn't necessarily make it effective. Also, kevin32 mentioned he tried the square totes and they're a hassle to keep clean. He's not the only way to have said that over the years here. Also, I'm not sure where you heard that filter to fish story but it is, on a "general statement" basis, false. You'd have to quantify the design based on the media used and turnover. The speed in a settlement chamber should be around 25%-40% of the speed in the bio chambers, again depending on what's used for media.
      So, you didn't really answer the question of the day - what is the planned REAL size of this pond? Was your first estimate a typo?
      Mike

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      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    18. #18
      tom66 is offline Member
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      Was your first estimate a typo?[/QUOTE]

      No, not a typo. Pond is an almost perfect ellipse (oval) 56'long, 25' wide, one third @ 4'deep, one third at 8', and the third in the middle slanted between the two depths with slightly slanted walls.

      What do you mean by " settlement chamber should be around 25%-40% of the speed in the bio chambers, again depending on what's used for media "
      Last edited by tom66; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:53 AM.

    19. #19
      vipertom1970 is online now Senior Member
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      You want a 50,000+ gallon pond but you are on a cheap budget ? You should rethink your plan because even for $1.00/gallon which is almost impossible, still puts you above $50,000+.
      Last edited by vipertom1970; 2 Weeks Ago at 12:23 PM.

    20. #20
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by tom66 View Post
      Was your first estimate a typo?
      No, not a typo. Pond is an almost perfect ellipse (oval) 56'long, 25' wide, one third @ 4'deep, one third at 8', and the third in the middle slanted between the two depths with slightly slanted walls.

      What do you mean by " settlement chamber should be around 25%-40% of the speed in the bio chambers, again depending on what's used for media "[/QUOTE]

      To get most debris to settle out, it needs to be slowed down. So, in a 275gal tote, the max flow would need to be around 2500-3000gph. However, in a moving bed bio filter in the same size container, you can flow 2-3 times that amount as you're not trying to settle out mechanical debris but remove ammonia/nitrite which are in solution but not solids.

      So, this size pond, is TOTALLY UNDERFILTERED with the design idea you currently have. I also agree with vipertom and feel that you'd be closer to $75,000-$100,000 in cost if you provide correct filtration.

      Here is an excerpt from your original post...Can some of you please comment here and tell me if my plan is wrong or if it can all be done better. I have never done anything close to this before and I have never seen one of these tanks other than in pictures so I could easily be wrong in something !

      YOU asked for opinions and you're getting them but it doesn't sound like you're ready to hear the real truth. It can be hard sometimes, but the reality is this would not be a cheap project and should not be taken on as one if you wish to be successful.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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