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    Thread: Many holes, can they all be patched?

    1. #1
      bart is offline Junior Member
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      Many holes, can they all be patched?

      Created by roots, pulled them out but had to create some big ones to get my arm underneath there. But patching them has proven to be difficult and expensive. Has anyone else confronted this problem? I cannot afford a new lines because it's massive

    2. #2
      BWG is offline Senior Member
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      Posting some pics would help evaluate.

    3. #3
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      Trying to patch a liner that is installed is very difficult if not impossible to get a proper seal on just one hole let alone many. The problem is getting the sealant/glue or patches to properly adhere to the surface of the material even after cleaning it perfectly. Sorry, but you'll most likely have to replace the liner or do a different type of construction inside the existing pond like gunite/shotcrete or such.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    4. #4
      kimini is online now Senior Member
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      Another option, if the holes are near the edge of the liner, is to make the pond slightly smaller by moving the edge inward enough to get the bad part up out of the water.

    5. #5
      bart is offline Junior Member
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      Yeah I thought about making it smaller but there are too many holes in the middle. I refuse to believe it's impossible! Why do patches even exist then? I admit I'm not cleaning the pond liner perfectly before putting the patch on, any tips for cleaning? https://imgur.com/gallery/noFhY

    6. #6
      BWG is offline Senior Member
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      Is the material EPDM rubber or something else? What materials and method are you using?
      Attached Images Attached Images   
      Last edited by BWG; 1 Week Ago at 10:47 PM.

    7. #7
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      As one who has actually tried to patch liner, for the number and size of holes you say you have, and where they are, it is practically impossible, sorry.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    8. #8
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by bart View Post
      Yeah I thought about making it smaller but there are too many holes in the middle. I refuse to believe it's impossible! Why do patches even exist then? I admit I'm not cleaning the pond liner perfectly before putting the patch on, any tips for cleaning? https://imgur.com/gallery/noFhY
      BTW, in that link, most of those are PVC liner like from Laguna and a couple others. They tear easier than EPDM as they become brittle in hard water conditions like we have in most of the US. The last pic "may be" EPDM but I'm not positive. Notice the first couple pics you can see a "material" pattern which is the interior "mesh sheeting" layered between the layers of PVC material.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    9. #9
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      I'm assuming you've drained the pond? To me personally the risk of having even one of the many patches fail is pretty high. In the grand scheme of things the liner has got to be a fraction of the total cost of pond ownership regardless of size (because the bigger the pond the more filtration/pumps/fish there are). It just seems, frankly, crazy to not just replace the liner while you have a chance and if you can't afford a new liner then I'd say just wait until you can.

      Or, you could try to fix every single hole. And then fill up the pond and wait and drain and refill and drain and fix and refill and drain and fix.

    10. #10
      bart is offline Junior Member
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      It's been nearly ten years though and if I don't think my parents have the common sense to Shell out and buy a newiner. The pond is quite big and about 100 feet by 15 feet wide which according to one website would cost over $1,300.

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      bart is offline Junior Member
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      WouildI have been better off just leaving the roots to their business? One minute into this video there is a koi pond, and there other product flex tape might actually work! They plug holes all the time even while water is pouring out!


      Well the middle of the pond is mostly in good condition and I guess if I shortern the pond it may work out a lot better, unfortunately it's the same length as the deck so I don't think I can shorten it without screwing that up. My folks want to bury it all

    12. #12
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      From the pics it looks like you are not using the correct patch materials and method for the material. Second the patch area is not clean enough and prepped correctly. Third the patch you tried applying is too small for the hole size.

      Cut a very small piece of liner from the outside edge of the pond. Take it to a pond shop or someone knowledgeable and see what type of material it is. After you know the material go out to uTube and look at several videos how to patch correctly.
      Last edited by BWG; 1 Week Ago at 09:40 AM.

    13. #13
      BWG is offline Senior Member
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      You mentioned the Flex Seal tape. I have used this around the farm many times and it is a good product. It works long term when the surface is very clean, dry and the surface is prepped. No opinion on how long it would last on a fish pond liner.
      Last edited by BWG; 1 Week Ago at 12:03 PM.

    14. #14
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      Probably the biggest issue, regardless of type of material is getting the liner clean. The outside of the liner is in contact with soil, and if it can be exposed for cleaning, probably is the easier side to clean, just difficult getting the weight of the water off of that side to be able to roll it out from the earth and get it clean. The pond side has algae and bio film. Either of them are tenacious, and would best be cleaned using some form of solvent, but the fish would not like that, and abrasives would instill fine tears in the liner. The liner material is tested by the manufacture for tensile strength, and tear resistance. The tear test is done with a sample that has an intentionally cut notch, causing the material to continue the tear. Tear resistance is about 10% of tensile strength for many of the rubber like products. If the bio film is not completely removed, the patch will not adhere to the liner, and if algae is still present, it holds the patch away from the liner, again preventing bonding. The Flex Seal Spray may be the best bet, as it would allow adhesion on the areas that are clean and span those that were not.I haven't tried it, so it would be an experiment.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    15. #15
      bart is offline Junior Member
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      Yeah I really did a poor first attempt at patching them up, I'll take a look at a few videos. Not sure why Flex Seal may be advantageous over a pond patch except that it may be cheaper so maybe I'll forget about it for now. I'm going to try patching it while my folks are away in December and hopefully the cold will help make the seal a bit better than when I tried it over the summer. This is so ****ing frustrating, the pond is supposed to be the centerpiece of the backyard!

    16. #16
      bart is offline Junior Member
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      Yeah getting it clean has caused me some problems, only because I have no idea how to clean pond liner. I am going to use some regular dish washing soap and a rag, maybe some lysol disinfectant spray or some clorax wipes and wait for it to dry. There's no bio film since the pond hasn't been filled in nearly a decade but would that spray work on a hole?

    17. #17
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      All I have to go on is the commercials for the spray. They use it to put a screen door in the bottom of a boat, seal leaky gutters, etc.. I would think that if a large area were cleaned, sufficiently around the edges to get a good bond at the edges, the water will keep the material pushed against the liner in the inner areas and you might get a bunch of holes patched with one patch.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    18. #18
      audioenvy's Avatar
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      So... what does the rest of the pond setup look like? Filtration, pumps, skimmers, etc.

    19. #19
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      Actually, the colder the weather, the tougher time you'll have getting the adhesive to truly bond well. Also, I do know that there is a specialized cleaner made by a company that distributes to the Aquascape type dealers. We used it twice and the results of cleaning the liner surface were pretty decent. But, that was on EPDM liner that was basically brand new while we tried to adhere liner tape over folds. That didn't even work well as the folds came undone after a couple months in many areas. I would highly recommend you send an inquiry, with pictures to Firestone Pond Guard website along with Laguna's site and ask specifically what you can do you repair these holes. At this moment I'm not sure what type of liner you actually have. Did I miss this part or do you know for sure?
      Mike

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      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    20. #20
      kevin32's Avatar
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      would using a toilet flange with the built in cap work? liquid nails and bolt another flange under it. only thing I can think of

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