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    Thread: My Koi are confused by the floating pellets in their new indoor home

    1. #21
      Bill_Stock is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by MartyDopps View Post
      Thanks very much, Richard. I checked my water parameters yesterday, ammonia was .25, both NO2 and NO3 were at zero. Since a 45 gallon tub is essentially an aquarium, is there anything wrong about using something like a Tetra submersible filter? And I'll study this additional information as well. Thanks again.
      Buy some Amquel and add it daily until the filter gets established. 45 gallons is pretty small for Koi, so don't overfeed and be careful.

    2. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      well there is nothing right about using submersible filters. will be hard to remove the ammonia as the ammonia is still there in the submersible filter. I would at least use a waterfall filter with some padding. better yet a filter like a biostep10 from matala would be more suitable

      not being negative but just trying to inform..i don't mean to be to harsh.
      No worries, Kevin. Thanks for the info!

    3. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by Bill_Stock View Post
      Buy some Amquel and add it daily until the filter gets established. 45 gallons is pretty small for Koi, so don't overfeed and be careful.
      Thanks Bill. It's 45 gallons because I only have three fish, about 4" each. Hopefully they don't outgrow their winter digs by March! And I'll take your advice about the Amquel. Thank you sir.

    4. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      well there is nothing right about using submersible filters. will be hard to remove the ammonia as the ammonia is still there in the submersible filter. I would at least use a waterfall filter with some padding. better yet a filter like a biostep10 from matala would be more suitable

      not being negative but just trying to inform..i don't mean to be to harsh.
      I looked at the Matala filters online last night. Rather than spending another $200 plus, I wonder if I may be able to use the Aqua Scape filter I have running in the backyard right now, since no fish are resident? The question I'd like to pose to this group is if I can basically "plug and play" (moving the filter from the backyard to the garage) and whether the fish would suffer from any differences in the water chemistry? The biggest difference I can think of in water chemistry, five days now after moving them into the tub, is that I did a roughly 10% water change in the tub two days ago. Thanks all.

    5. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      well there is nothing right about using submersible filters. will be hard to remove the ammonia as the ammonia is still there in the submersible filter. I would at least use a waterfall filter with some padding. better yet a filter like a biostep10 from matala would be more suitable

      not being negative but just trying to inform..i don't mean to be to harsh.
      How is ammonia trapped in a submersible foam filter?

      Quote Originally Posted by MartyDopps View Post
      I looked at the Matala filters online last night. Rather than spending another $200 plus, I wonder if I may be able to use the Aqua Scape filter I have running in the backyard right now, since no fish are resident? The question I'd like to pose to this group is if I can basically "plug and play" (moving the filter from the backyard to the garage) and whether the fish would suffer from any differences in the water chemistry? The biggest difference I can think of in water chemistry, five days now after moving them into the tub, is that I did a roughly 10% water change in the tub two days ago. Thanks all.
      No reason I can think of why you couldn't move it but I think the concentration of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate will be higher
      in a smaller tank than the pond so it may not be able to perform as it did before. I'd still keep a close eye on those parameters until
      you know how well it keeps up.

      Does the pond have a way to circulate without the filter? I wouldn't want it to sit stagnant all winter and then try and restart it in the spring.
      --Steve
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    6. #26
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      [QUOTE=icu2;2646457]How is ammonia trapped in a submersible foam filter?

      all the food and waste just sits in the pond. when you pull the submersible filter out all kinds of junk comes out of it also. I've used submersible filters but as stand alone never had luck keeping ammonia at 0. may be it was just to small.

      maybe he could just make a small filter out of 5 gallon bucket

    7. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      How is ammonia trapped in a submersible foam filter?



      No reason I can think of why you couldn't move it but I think the concentration of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate will be higher
      in a smaller tank than the pond so it may not be able to perform as it did before. I'd still keep a close eye on those parameters until
      you know how well it keeps up.

      Does the pond have a way to circulate without the filter? I wouldn't want it to sit stagnant all winter and then try and restart it in the spring.
      My pond actually has two systems running simultaneously: there's the AquaScape skimmer and BioFalls filter that's been in place since day 1 (August 21st) and then in later September I installed the AS Aquaforce submersible pond pump an Ultraklean Pond Filter with UV. I added the second unit primarily for the UV benefits to fight algae in the water, which worked quite well. It's the AF Pond Pump and Ultraklean Filter that I would bring into the garage, thereby keeping the skimmer/biofalls filter running throughout the winter. Thoughts? And thanks!

    8. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by MartyDopps View Post
      My pond actually has two systems running simultaneously: there's the AquaScape skimmer and BioFalls filter that's been in place since day 1 (August 21st) and then in later September I installed the AS Aquaforce submersible pond pump an Ultraklean Pond Filter with UV. I added the second unit primarily for the UV benefits to fight algae in the water, which worked quite well. It's the AF Pond Pump and Ultraklean Filter that I would bring into the garage, thereby keeping the skimmer/biofalls filter running throughout the winter. Thoughts? And thanks!

      I'm not sure of your leaf load but know most of my big maples are done but the japanese maple still has awhile before it's
      done dropping leaves, so be sure there's not debris sitting on the bottom without the sub pump... but I think that should work
      fine as long as the parameters are watched.
      --Steve
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      "It is far better to be alone, than to be in bad company." --George Washington

    9. #29
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      Thank you Steve.

    10. #30
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      This discussion of my filters takes me to a bigger question I've been musing about for a while - and that's the potential for a total redo of my system next year. If anyone has followed my other posts, it's easy to see that I made a lot of rookie mistakes in the build of my current pond a mere three months ago. I'm toying with the idea of going much deeper next year (for both reasons of raccoon and heron deterrence, as well as for proper fish load) but am trying to be thoughtful about this whole thing and not make any knee-jerk decisions. Part of my thinking about a rebuild centers around putting in a real filtration system if I redo the pond. If I do that, however, I want to know if there's anything out there that I can leave unattended for two weeks plus, at a time, while we do retirement and travel activities. Thanks again all. And if anyone thinks it would be better if I start that topic as a new thread, to get broader exposure, please advise.

    11. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by MartyDopps View Post
      This discussion of my filters takes me to a bigger question I've been musing about for a while - and that's the potential for a total redo of my system next year. If anyone has followed my other posts, it's easy to see that I made a lot of rookie mistakes in the build of my current pond a mere three months ago. I'm toying with the idea of going much deeper next year (for both reasons of raccoon and heron deterrence, as well as for proper fish load) but am trying to be thoughtful about this whole thing and not make any knee-jerk decisions. Part of my thinking about a rebuild centers around putting in a real filtration system if I redo the pond. If I do that, however, I want to know if there's anything out there that I can leave unattended for two weeks plus, at a time, while we do retirement and travel activities. Thanks again all. And if anyone thinks it would be better if I start that topic as a new thread, to get broader exposure, please advise.
      Better than taking a thread off the original topic...
      And probably belongs in Construction and Filtration.
      --Steve
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    12. #32
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      Thanks Steve, will do. :-)

    13. #33
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      i would move the waterfall filter from pond. if you are going to redo the main pond then no sense of keeping it going i feel

    14. #34
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      Nice looking fish. How big is the aquarium that you have them in? Koi need a lot of water, and depth to feel safe, as mentioned earlier. A stock tank is a nice option instead of an aquarium as it almost mimics a pond, with the sides not being see through, but not everyone has an ugly unfinished basement to put one in!!!!

      How big is your pond outside? The change from lots of room to no room can also freak them out. If you don't feed for a day or two, it might make them more visible-- they will see you as their food source and be more likely to come out and up when they see you.


      Quote Originally Posted by Bill_Stock View Post
      I purchased some GF from the garden centre in July, but when I brought them indoors recently it was obvious that 3 of the 4 are actually Koi. I fed them floating pellets in the pond, but they would never come up to eat when anyone was around. They have always been skittish, even the one GF. I actually lost one to a Raccoon I think, so that might explain their behaviour.

      I thought they might freak out being in the indoor tank, but they have been fine. But they will not come up to eat their floating pellets. I'm not sure if they are bothered by the lights or just don't want to eat when anyone is around. The odd thing is that I had one very old GF that I left in the tank. It also would not come up to eat, but I assume it was blind or senile, but now that it has friends again it is coming up to eat. But the Koi still won't follow it's lead. I will try feeding them their pond pellets to see if that helps or try some sinking pellets.

      Any idea what's up with these guys? Just shy?

      Thx


      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."






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    15. #35
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      Start the topic as a new thread, maybe in main or construction. You definitely came to the right place for that kind of information!!! Do it right (I didn't, so I have a lot of work to do to maintain my four freakishly large koi)-- and you'll have a lot less work and worry!!!

      Quote Originally Posted by MartyDopps View Post
      This discussion of my filters takes me to a bigger question I've been musing about for a while - and that's the potential for a total redo of my system next year. If anyone has followed my other posts, it's easy to see that I made a lot of rookie mistakes in the build of my current pond a mere three months ago. I'm toying with the idea of going much deeper next year (for both reasons of raccoon and heron deterrence, as well as for proper fish load) but am trying to be thoughtful about this whole thing and not make any knee-jerk decisions. Part of my thinking about a rebuild centers around putting in a real filtration system if I redo the pond. If I do that, however, I want to know if there's anything out there that I can leave unattended for two weeks plus, at a time, while we do retirement and travel activities. Thanks again all. And if anyone thinks it would be better if I start that topic as a new thread, to get broader exposure, please advise.


      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."






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    16. #36
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      Prime or SAFE (powdered form of Prime) is better than amquel. Amquel does not add buffering agents to reduce the risk of pH crashes, one of my primary reasons forlearning more about koi and goldfish keeping. When you have time, do some research on pH crashes and KH; not trying to hijack thread, so won't go into more detail. Prime and SAFE (both available on Amazon, SAFE ends up being cheaper in the long run) neutralizes ammonia, chloramines, detoxifies nitrIte, nitrAte, heavy metals, does not cause fluctuations in pH. Just a heads up. I was using Amquel on a regular basis when I lost a full tank of fish. I think the (+) version may have other elements added, but not sure. I just stick to what I know works, and why.


      Quote Originally Posted by Bill_Stock View Post
      Buy some Amquel and add it daily until the filter gets established. 45 gallons is pretty small for Koi, so don't overfeed and be careful.


      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."






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      I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me they are the role model for being alive. -- Gilda Radner

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    17. #37
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      I have a 150 gallon stock tank in my basement, I use a couple of Rena filstar canister filters on them for filtration, work well, easy to set up and well made, will last for many years. How cold does it get up in Brentwood? Might consider covering next year for a short period of time instead of bringing them in. My koi are way too huge to even consider bringing them indoors for the winter, and my set up in Michigan works pretty good; and we go down well below zero.

      Quote Originally Posted by MartyDopps View Post
      I have a similar tale and would appreciate any comments. I received a few small koi (4-5") a few weeks ago and placed them in my pond. Here in Seattle we had a cold snap and the water plummeted to 44 degrees within the past week. I was concerned about these youngins making it through the winter so my very local friend Monte McQuade said bringing them indoors (to my garage) for the winter wouldn't be a bad idea. I purchased a plastic stock feeding trough on Tuesday and put about 35 gals of pond water in it, captured the fish and brought them to the tank. I placed a 150w heater in there, added an external pump and a few airstones. After about 30 hours the temp rose to a toasty 65 or so. Since I'd only had the fish for two weeks in my pond, they never ate anything that I could tell, which may have been attributed to the water being about 50 when they were introduced. So here's a comment I'll share, and a question. Comment - after being in the tank for nearly three days, they finally started eating this morning. I used some Tetra floating pond sticks and everything is gone. It seems the warmer water really jump started their appetites. Question #1 - with warm water like this, should I plan on feeding them daily? Do those of you in much warmer climates feed your koi daily? Question #2 - I came out to the garage this morning and found one of them on the floor. A quick inspection showed he was still breathing so I quickly and gently lifted him off the concrete and placed him in the tank. He didn't look so well over the first hour, but five hours later he appears to be back to his chipper self. I'll be keeping a close eye on him for the next several days, but is there something I should do proactively to help him? I'm not seeing any outward or obvious problems. But I'm also going to get some netting material right away and get a cover on the tank. I'd never seen one jump before so now know to not take any chances!! Thanks in advance, Marty


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      I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me they are the role model for being alive. -- Gilda Radner

      Yesterday I was a dog. Today I'm a dog. Tomorrow I'll probably still be a dog. Sigh! There's so little hope for advancement. -- Snoopy

    18. #38
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      safe is awesome. cheap and protects the koi. I just add 2x needed just for good measure now

    19. #39
      Bill_Stock is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by nmtsaki View Post
      Nice looking fish. How big is the aquarium that you have them in? Koi need a lot of water, and depth to feel safe, as mentioned earlier. A stock tank is a nice option instead of an aquarium as it almost mimics a pond, with the sides not being see through, but not everyone has an ugly unfinished basement to put one in!!!!

      How big is your pond outside? The change from lots of room to no room can also freak them out. If you don't feed for a day or two, it might make them more visible-- they will see you as their food source and be more likely to come out and up when they see you.
      The aquarium is 90 gallons with a 55 gallon sump and I change about 20 gallons daily. Although I might have to increase the water changes to twice a daily. I do have a 300 gallon stock tank, but I'd like to avoid that if possible, as it presents it's own problems.

      The pond outside is only about 800 gallons, so I never intended to put Koi in it. These guys were sold as GF. They do not seem too concerned about the tank so far.

      I have a hoop house for the pond outside and might consider adding solar heating for next winter so I can keep the fish for a while. Although I suspect they will have to go to a better home at some point.

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