• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Results 1 to 15 of 15

    Thread: Imported Israel Koi not liking Chicago winter.

    1. #1
      sdkatyarmal is offline Junior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2017
      Location
      Oswego
      Posts
      3

      Question Imported Israel Koi not liking Chicago winter.

      Hi,

      I got two imported Kois from Israel(about 10"-12" length for fish) this July they were nice and healthy fish until last Wednesday(11/01/2017). When my pond water temperature dropped to 42 F both these fish started swimming sideways ...and almost belly up and hardly moving ...then they started coming on water surface with no to little movement. Then I took matters in hand I got them in without any struggle from them to get in my net. I kept them in 10 gallon emergency aquarium with life guard tablet inside aquarium. Slowly water temperature started warming up inside my home ...and within three hours they started swimming straight and by 12 hours they gained full swimming motion. They hardly ate anything for first couple of days and 3rd day onwards they started eating normally and looks fully recovered. Note that water temperature inside home is about 68-70 F. Now my dilemma is whether to release them back in cold outside water or I invest in 100 Gallon aquarium to keep them inside entire winter. My pond is 10'X30' and about 30" deep.

      I want to save their life. But at the same time don't want to bring them inside every winter. I have 12 more Kois in pond which are still doing great in pond only difference is these are imported from Israel and rest are domestic.

    2. #2
      RichToyBox's Avatar
      RichToyBox is offline Administrator ~ WWKC BOD ~
      Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Awesome
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Sandston, VA
      Posts
      12,513
      It will be very difficult to return them to the pond. The temperatures of the holding tank and the pond need to be within 5 degrees or less, and the temperature of the water with the fish really can't drop in temperature more than about 5 degrees a day. I would recommend you look for a larger facility than the 100 gallon tank you are thinking about. Many will set up an 8 or 10 foot intex swimming pool in their garage with a shower, sand/gravel, or bead filter, or with similar filtration get a 300 gallon Rubbermaid watering trough and set it in the basement, or garage. Fish that do this, most times will do it every year, so set up now for the future with facilities that will handle them as they grow.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    3. #3
      dragonfly1976 is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2010
      Location
      Western New York
      Posts
      536
      Stop feeding them entirely if they are in the 10 gallon tank. You will create many more problems this way, especially with ammonia. Koi can go for months without feeding so don’t worry about them starving. They need a resting period after what they have been through. Wait til you have a proper size holding tank with filtration before even thinking about feeding them.

    4. #4
      sdkatyarmal is offline Junior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2017
      Location
      Oswego
      Posts
      3
      Thanks Rich and Dragonfly1976.

      My garage is not heated... temp may drop to 50-55 F. After I set up holding tank in my garage. Do I need to feed them entire winter? I already have stopped feeding my outside pond koi after water temperature fell below 50 F. The reason I am asking because my garage will definitely be warmer than pond and temp may be around 55 F.

    5. #5
      montwila's Avatar
      montwila is offline Senior Member ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2009
      Location
      Auburn, WA.
      Posts
      2,161
      My experience with fish from Israel are that they are very fragile. Especially with lower temps.

      NDK use to sell them through Ebay and I, in the past have gotten some to keep through the Winter and grow for our club's Spring sale to raise money.

      The first years I just keep them in a small outdoor system and they had many problems. The last two years I have kept them indoors with some heat. The survival rate has been much better.

      A larger system would be better as noted above but two fish that size in 100 gallons COULD be taken through the Winter if kept at about 55 degrees or above and very little feeding. If it goes below 55 then you are keeping them in aeromonas alley and their chances go down. You will really need to stay on top of Water Quality and have an oversized, cycled filter, if you do this. I would set up a barrel filter next to the aquarium. It will also give you some extra volume.

      Best of Luck

    6. #6
      Essex Koi is online now Member
      is In winter mode
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Location
      Essex, UK
      Posts
      78
      Average temperature in Tel Aviv right now is 75 f, which would explain why they can’t take the cold.

      I know folk here who slowly acclimatise Koi who are used to high temperatures by putting in a heated tank and dropping the temperature very slowly. Say by 1f every couple of days and stopping or raising slightly, if the fish show signs of distress until they stabilise, then starting again.

      This seems to work 90% of the time as it’s a much reduced shock to their system.
      4000 US Gallon Pond, 14 Koi.

    7. #7
      RichToyBox's Avatar
      RichToyBox is offline Administrator ~ WWKC BOD ~
      Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Awesome
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Sandston, VA
      Posts
      12,513
      While they are in the garage, assuming a good filter is set up so that ammonia and nitrite are maintained at zero and pH is stable, then I would feed lightly once or twice a week. The feeding keeps them from going into torpor, by keeping them interested in food. If kept active, they are much less likely to have problems come spring. If there is a recurrence, you might look into a paint bucket heater to raise the temperature of the isolation tank slightly to keep them from rolling over. The heater could be put on a timer to cycle on and off just enough to keep them upright and swimming. Too much heat could lead to increased humidity in the garage, causing mold issues.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    8. #8
      ademink's Avatar
      ademink is offline Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2005
      Location
      Indianapolis, IN
      Posts
      2,780
      I have a handful of koi who cannot make it through the cold temps since we had an insanely cold winter 4 years ago. They have become my snowbirds who regularly come in for the winter. I have daisy-chained 2 300 gallon rubbermaid tanks together and set it up w/ filtration to go each winter. I have come to enjoy having them inside for the winter!
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member



    9. #9
      KoiRun's Avatar
      KoiRun is offline Senior Member
      is ready for winter
       
      Feeling:
      Shy
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2015
      Location
      Mississauga, Ontario
      Posts
      976
      Quote Originally Posted by montwila View Post
      My experience with fish from Israel are that they are very fragile. Especially with lower temps.

      NDK use to sell them through Ebay and I, in the past have gotten some to keep through the Winter and grow for our club's Spring sale to raise money.

      The first years I just keep them in a small outdoor system and they had many problems. The last two years I have kept them indoors with some heat. The survival rate has been much better.

      A larger system would be better as noted above but two fish that size in 100 gallons COULD be taken through the Winter if kept at about 55 degrees or above and very little feeding. If it goes below 55 then you are keeping them in aeromonas alley and their chances go down. You will really need to stay on top of Water Quality and have an oversized, cycled filter, if you do this. I would set up a barrel filter next to the aquarium. It will also give you some extra volume.

      Best of Luck
      Is this evidence-based? Can you provide scientific reference? Thx.

    10. #10
      montwila's Avatar
      montwila is offline Senior Member ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2009
      Location
      Auburn, WA.
      Posts
      2,161
      As I replied to a PM to another member.

      The short version: A koi's immune system is virtually in-active below 55*F
      Bacterial counts begin to rise as the temperature rises starting below 55*F. (Duncan pg. 123 cites bacterial counts at four temps starting at 14*C)

      Based upon my experience with these specific fish the OP asked about and other small Japanese imports I have kept, is the evidence that I have.

      Why do you ask? Maybe PM me so we do not hijack this thread.

    11. #11
      nmtsaki's Avatar
      nmtsaki is offline Senior Member ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
      is hating changing her status yet
      again.
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      May 2007
      Location
      Oak Park, MI
      Posts
      15,726
      I would go the indoor route in the basement as opposed to outside in a heated garage. The temps will probably go lower than what you think. I have had a 150 gallon stock tank in my basement for years, with goldfish in it. It is kind of neat ha in an indoor system. You get to visit with your.fish year round. Although, I do cover my pond, and heat it, so my water stays about 50 to 60F. Better than way too cold.


      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."






      Favorite Quotes:
      The greatest pleasure of a dog is that you may make a fool of yourself with him, and not only will he not scold you, but he will make a fool of himself, too. -- Samuel Butler.

      My little dog - a heartbeat at my feet. -- Edith Wharton.

      I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me they are the role model for being alive. -- Gilda Radner

      Yesterday I was a dog. Today I'm a dog. Tomorrow I'll probably still be a dog. Sigh! There's so little hope for advancement. -- Snoopy

    12. #12
      nmtsaki's Avatar
      nmtsaki is offline Senior Member ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
      is hating changing her status yet
      again.
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      May 2007
      Location
      Oak Park, MI
      Posts
      15,726
      I would love to see pictures,of your set up.

      Quote Originally Posted by ademink View Post
      I have a handful of koi who cannot make it through the cold temps since we had an insanely cold winter 4 years ago. They have become my snowbirds who regularly come in for the winter. I have daisy-chained 2 300 gallon rubbermaid tanks together and set it up w/ filtration to go each winter. I have come to enjoy having them inside for the winter!


      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."






      Favorite Quotes:
      The greatest pleasure of a dog is that you may make a fool of yourself with him, and not only will he not scold you, but he will make a fool of himself, too. -- Samuel Butler.

      My little dog - a heartbeat at my feet. -- Edith Wharton.

      I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me they are the role model for being alive. -- Gilda Radner

      Yesterday I was a dog. Today I'm a dog. Tomorrow I'll probably still be a dog. Sigh! There's so little hope for advancement. -- Snoopy

    13. #13
      sdkatyarmal is offline Junior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2017
      Location
      Oswego
      Posts
      3
      Thanks you all expert. This is what ended up doing. It's not perfect set up but tried to pick up from you all. Based on space in garage I ended up having 150 gallon Rubbermaid stock tank. Put about 2" of pond pebbles and gravel (cleaned up these substrate 3 times). Added one aerator and 200 gallons capacity aquarium filter (canister type). When i added water i made sure water temperature is 70 F. After adding beneficial bacteria and declorinator I waited for overnight. in morning I noticed temp fell to about 62 F. I added aquarium heater brought back temp to 65 F and added fish from indoor to insulated garage (not heated). I let slowly temperature fall to 55 F in 4 days. Now I am maintaining that with the help of aquarium heater and timer. I also have daylight lamp which is on timer and stays on for 8 hours a day. Both the koi are taking it nice no shock at all. They stopped eating after temp went to 55 but still strong no sideways or belly up swimming anymore. This is my first year of pond venture so don't judge me whether I am doing it right or not. But my intentions are not to loose them at the same time create natural outdoor environment inside my garage to the best of my ability.

    14. #14
      montwila's Avatar
      montwila is offline Senior Member ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2009
      Location
      Auburn, WA.
      Posts
      2,161
      Sounds like a reasonable plan.


      Good Luck, let us know how they are doing each month.

    15. #15
      RichToyBox's Avatar
      RichToyBox is offline Administrator ~ WWKC BOD ~
      Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Awesome
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Sandston, VA
      Posts
      12,513
      For small volume spaces water quality becomes a big issue. Test frequently until the filters are capable of maintaining an ammonia and nitrite reading of zero. If ammonia is detected, I recommend the use of a SeaChem Ammonia Alert Card to know if the ammonia is in a toxic state, and if it is showing toxic, then use a dechlor product that binds ammonia, like Safe, Amquel, Cloram-X to neutralize the ammonia. Once nitrites are found add salt at about 1 pound per 100 gallons, which will protect the fish from brown blood disease caused by the uptake of nitrites. I would also check the KH and be sure it is well over 100 as the bio filters seem to mature much quicker with high KH values.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •