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  • Results 1 to 17 of 17

    Thread: 15" Marudo Sanke Female for semi-serious critique...

    1. #1
      audioenvy's Avatar
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      15" Marudo Sanke Female for semi-serious critique...

      Based on a couple of trusted recommendations, I bought this little lady last week and she arrived this morning. No plans to take this fish to any shows or anything but I thought I'd share. I'm about as novice as they come but she seems a bit skinny at the moment. Hopefully this fish will fill out over the summer.



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      --Steve

    2. #2
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      I'm going to think out loud:

      1. This must've been purchased domestically because its the wrong time of year to have a skinny fish and
      2. If purchased domestically, it may have been left over from last season or maybe Spring.
      3. I think the beni is on its way out in a lot of places and the sumi doesn't look very good either.
      4. The skin looks pretty flat.
      5. Its hard to tell, but it looks like it could be female.

      Everything with koi is a learning experience. You've just got to read a lot and buy a lot of 'learning' fish.
      First hand experience is usually the best and mot expensive way to learn.
      It also helps if you can find a dealer you can trust to guide you a little.
      Last edited by rainblood; 2 Weeks Ago at 06:08 PM.
      -Rain

      :I CAN'T BRING THIS SHIP INTO TRTUGA ALL BY ME ONESIES, SAVVY?:

    3. #3
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      Quote Originally Posted by rainblood View Post
      I'm going to think out loud
      Thanks for the feedback. It's helpful.

      You liked the fish better in this thread--but that goes to show how a single photo doesn't capture the full essence:

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...-Sanke-Edition

    4. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by rainblood View Post
      I'm going to think out loud:

      1. This must've been purchased domestically because its the wrong time of year to have a skinny fish and
      2. If purchased domestically, it may have been left over from last season or maybe Spring.
      3. I think the beni is on its way out in a lot of places and the sumi doesn't look very good either.
      4. The skin looks pretty flat.
      5. Its hard to tell, but it looks like it could be female.

      Everything with koi is a learning experience. You've just got to read a lot and buy a lot of 'learning' fish.
      First hand experience is usually the best and mot expensive way to learn.
      It also helps if you can find a dealer you can trust to guide you a little.

      Speaking of learning fish.... true story

      At the San Diego koi show.... after bowling a small Showa. As I was assessing the koi, a voice across the tank "Good eye!, very good learning koi." I looked up. It was Chai (yes...ZNA freaking Chai). A year later, I learned that small koi can't stand a chance with a Big Blue Heron.

    5. #5
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      F

      Quote Originally Posted by rainblood View Post
      I think C is #1.
      A is male.
      E has a crooked head.
      D I think the beni is going out
      B is a flattering pic I think but would be my #3
      F would be #2 by default.
      Well, Russ and Mike picked F as #1. And F was my #2 by default.
      It'd be interesting to see how they evaluate F now.
      -Rain

      :I CAN'T BRING THIS SHIP INTO TRTUGA ALL BY ME ONESIES, SAVVY?:

    6. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by koifry View Post
      At the San Diego koi show.... after bowling a small Showa. As I was assessing the koi, a voice across the tank "Good eye!, very good learning koi." I looked up. It was Chai (yes...ZNA freaking Chai). A year later, I learned that small koi can't stand a chance with a Big Blue Heron.
      A "very good learning koi" is a great way to describe what I'm hoping for.

    7. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by rainblood View Post
      Well, Russ and Mike picked F as #1. And F was my #2 by default.
      It'd be interesting to see how they evaluate F now.
      For sure. I know that lighting and staging make a difference and this is the first time I've ever attempted to take koi bowl photos like this. For comparison purposes, this is the sales photo:

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      At some level it's a moot point because I'm going to enjoy this fish regardless and it does look great in "real life" but from a learning standpoint it would be good to get all the information I can.

    8. #8
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      ...sankeís sumi is hard to predict as tosai. Hopefully the sumi should stable as it growth but yup there some unevenness in the beni from your pictures compared to the sellerís. You just gonna gamble and patience on this sanke here. Did you paid less for this than the sanke D? Is this a PAn auction fish? I though of ran into this one somewhere
      Last edited by OCkoiFan; 2 Weeks Ago at 01:26 AM.
      M.Nguyen


    9. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by OCkoiFan View Post
      ...sanke’s sumi is hard to predict as tosai. Hopefully the sumi should stable as it growth but yup there some unevenness in the beni from your pictures compared to the seller’s. You just gonna gamble and patience on this sanke here. Did you paid less for this than the sanke D? Is this a PAn auction fish? I though of ran into this one somewhere
      I definitely would have bought Male Sanke D had it not been sold immediately--but of course those who do this stuff for a living did not have great things to say about it so I was probably spared.

      It would be interesting to know how old the seller photo is. I can't imagine it's more than a few weeks old. Whoever takes those photos for Kodama sure knows how to get the lighting right though.

    10. #10
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      Of course their staffs are too experienced taking thousands and thousands of pictures
      Thanks for the info
      M.Nguyen


    11. #11
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      Ah. I too was a victim of the infamous Kodama angle

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...19-Benilicious
      -Rain

      :I CAN'T BRING THIS SHIP INTO TRTUGA ALL BY ME ONESIES, SAVVY?:

    12. #12
      inazuma28 is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by rainblood View Post
      Ah. I too was a victim of the infamous Kodama angle

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...19-Benilicious
      Way Way before I found a trusted dealer on koiphen I was kind of tired of my pond full of domestically bred koi (they were all good fish but no real beni or sumi to speak of, all ochiba, chagoi and matsuba) I purchased 3 from Kodama. I think this kind of well marketed systemic victimization affects us all.

    13. #13
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      Kodama has carved a nice niche in the market. Kudos to them, I'm sure that they make Japanese koi available to a lot of people who would otherwise not have the budget or access.
      Its a good starting point until you fall deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole.
      Unfortunately for most of us, our tastes and quality preferences have grown beyond what they provide at auction.
      -Rain

      :I CAN'T BRING THIS SHIP INTO TRTUGA ALL BY ME ONESIES, SAVVY?:

    14. #14
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      I'll be sure to post another bowl photo of this fish next fall.

    15. #15
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      Well, as I was asked if I still feel the same about this fish the answer is a resounding yes. For one thing, as has been pointed out, Kodama does a great job marketing their fish but I feel to the point of false hope for buyers. Most of the fish on the auctions are nothing more than pond grade/chuppa/export quality fish. The breeders give Kodama a HUGE price break because they buy MANY fish at a time and are repeat customers. I've seen a serious decline in the quality of what they offer over the last 6-7 years as well. I've purchased many fish from them back when Momoru was in charge. I feel he provided a much better quality level for the price than is offered now. I'm not saying they were show worthy quality, but much better pond quality that one could learn from from various breeders. Also, as the auction leans towards the these types of hobbyists that don't really care that much about learning about the qualities of what they buy, or are just beginning the journey, they see a pic in a magazine and when presented with a $100 price tag for a young finished fish that looks "like that one I saw in the magazine", they can't resist the temptation. I think this sort of placement at the bottom of the learning tree is quite mandatory and I believe we've all been through it. It's kind of a "right of passage" kind of thing!lol

      As to this fish, it's a bit thin right now but that's understandable based on what it's been through so far in it's life with many cullings and shipping/handling processes that it's been through. Marudo is an interesting breeder. I've seen some amazing Sanke come from his farm. I remember back in 2001 when I first visited his location, I was told by the dealer I was with that he was famous for his Sanke. When we entered the greenhouse there wasn't one Sanke to view! The dealer asked about it and was told that he was done with Sanke as the production rate wasn't worth the time/effort as it was too hard to rear high quality fish any more. I guess over the next 5-6 years, he changed his mind for whatever reason and decided to jump back in. He has again produced some breathtaking Sanke a couple of which won a few prestigious awards in the SoCal shows back around '06-'07. This one has some inherent qualities that will provide some teaching points but depending on what points you're looking for may be of value down the road and others may fail you. So, enjoy the ride, watch how the body/frame develops over the next 2-3 years along with the sheen and luster of the skin. Then observe how the beni, sumi and shiroji thicken, develop and change density along with positioning. The only real way to observe these traits is to take glamour photos like you've done which are pretty good for a newbie and compare the subtle changes the pics will show you that your naked eye doesn't see by everyday observation. Good luck with it. I look forward to seeing semi-annual pics of the changes.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



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    16. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      The only real way to observe these traits is to take glamour photos like you've done which are pretty good for a newbie and compare the subtle changes the pics will show you that your naked eye doesn't see by everyday observation. Good luck with it. I look forward to seeing semi-annual pics of the changes.
      Mike, thanks so much for taking the time to weigh in with a thorough and thoughtful response. I really, really appreciate it. I promise to take photos!

    17. #17
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      Thanks! I think you'll WANT to take photos when the time comes.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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