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    Thread: Kobayashi Shiro updates

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    1. #1
      JL41 is offline Senior Member
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      Kobayashi Shiro updates

      Figured I will post development updates for my Kobayashi Shiro, just as a learning tool. It wasn't an expensive fish, $150 when it was 5" in spring of 2015. Keep in mind that I live in a 4 season climate zone with cold winters so my feeding season is maybe 4 months a year with another 3-4 months of completely no feeding. I don't feed in order to push for growth either so growth of 3-5" per year is typical for me.

      I have later read on this forum that for utsuri you can judge whether the sumi is up or down by how much sumi is in the pec fins - if there is a lot of sumi in pec fins then the sumi is up and vice versa. I have no idea whether that information is true or not but so far it turned out to be true for this fish.

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      4 months later, by September 2015 the fish was 10" but most of the sumi went down.

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      By next spring (May 2016) all of the sumi was back up. Actually even more sumi came up later.

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      By September 2016 the fish was 14" and the sumi was down again. This fish has a real talent for somehow scratching itself!

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      And the sumi has stayed that way ever since. The fish is now 17". Though there is some sumi visible under the skin on the body and on the face so I'm hopeful more will come up.

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      I definitely still like the fish. I think it is of nice quality for the price I paid. A bit more sumi would be great. Do you guys think more will come up?

    2. #2
      inazuma28 is offline Senior Member
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      The body is not bad and the fish still has a lot of developing to do. You did VERY well for $150. The pattern will come in, just be patient. I have a 2015 that is a little over 22'' and he is now almost all white. We are in the same boat. For me, i like waiting for sumi to come up far more than I like waiting for beni to fall apart

    3. #3
      JL41 is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by inazuma28 View Post
      I have a 2015 that is a little over 22'' and he is now almost all white. We are in the same boat.
      Did yours have a lot of sumi in pec fins when you bought it? I'm still trying to figure out if in utsuri you can judge whether sumi is up or down by how much sumi is in pec fins

      Quote Originally Posted by inazuma28 View Post
      For me, i like waiting for sumi to come up far more than I like waiting for beni to fall apart
      Very well put!

    4. #4
      inazuma28 is offline Senior Member
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      i dont want to hijack your thread but here is when i bought the fish and the stage when the most sumi was up.
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    5. #5
      JL41 is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by inazuma28 View Post
      i dont want to hijack your thread but here is when i bought the fish and the stage when the most sumi was up.
      Is this one of Russ'es Kobayashi Shiro from 2015? Definitely seems more massive Do you feed in the winter at all?

    6. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by inazuma28 View Post
      i dont want to hijack your thread but here is when i bought the fish and the stage when the most sumi was up.
      Wow crazy how the shiro turned out. From dark skull to white clean head. I like it

    7. #7
      inazuma28 is offline Senior Member
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      No, I bought this one with very little pec sumi. It was just around the pec joint in a tight pattern. At the begining of this year more sumi came up, but no where near a full pattern. Then by the summer he turned white and has been white since. I believe my fish will take at least another 2 years for the sumi to reveal the full pattern, if not more. But im in it for the long haul as the body is nice.

    8. #8
      inazuma28 is offline Senior Member
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      This is one of Russell's fish, but it was an Omosako tosai. One of two i purchased that year. The other is beautiful but quite boring. She came to me with a full pattern and stayed exactly as she was, besides growing. When the pond temps go below 55 ill feed maybe once a week until im forced to take my filters offline. Probably in December. Then they undergo a complete fast for 3-4 months depending on how bad the winter is. Outside of this schedule i normally fast them for at least one week when the water is warm. This year it was the last week in August. Im on Long Island NY so im probably very similar to your climate if not a bit milder.

    9. #9
      JL41 is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by inazuma28 View Post
      . When the pond temps go below 55 ill feed maybe once a week until im forced to take my filters offline. Probably in December. Then they undergo a complete fast for 3-4 months depending on how bad the winter is.
      I used to do the exact same thing. Now I keep a small "winter" filtration running all winter long. For me it's just a submersible pump fed Ultima beed filter with blower, returning water below water level. I position all of it, well just the Ultima really, right by the pond so that it stays under the tarp with the rest of the pond. No issues with freezing and gives me a piece of mind. I still don't feed during winter though, maybe 1-2 times a month.

    10. #10
      Billy Pounds is offline Senior Member
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      I got 2 of those SU as well...big "changes" for both
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    11. #11
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      UPDATE: Almost no change this year at all! Sumi is still down, though I guess for shiro that 's a good long-term thing? Skin still looks nice (looks better in person than in these pictures). Still a pretty good fish for $150 Our growing season in VA is only 4 months a year and I have a very small pond so I definitely do not feed to get growth. In the summer I feed maybe 4-5 times per day so 2-4" of growth per year is very common for my pond. The fish is 17" now. It was 5" in June 2016.

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    12. #12
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    13. #13
      Spartan is offline Senior Member
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      Hmm - one spot of the sumi on the forehead, but not sure that they'll be a return from whatt was as a tosai. Im not familiar w kobayashi development at all so take that comment with a grain of salt.

    14. #14
      JL41 is offline Senior Member
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      Update - another year of absolutely nothing happening The skin looks very nice though. I'll give this fish one more season and if sumi doesn't show up, then it will probably be the one to go during my annual autumn rehoming process

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    15. #15
      My2butterflies is offline Senior Member
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      Is the red veining anything to be considered about?

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      JL41 is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by My2butterflies View Post
      Is the red veining anything to be considered about?
      No. This fish in particular (and I believe SU in general) get red veining immediately as soon as it's stressed out. So the veining wasn't there before I caught it and is only present while bowling the fish.

    17. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by JL41 View Post
      No. This fish in particular (and I believe SU in general) get red veining immediately as soon as it's stressed out. So the veining wasn't there before I caught it and is only present while bowling the fish.
      The skin of my Kobayashi SU looks fine in the pond but changes to this ugly dull gray color in the bowl. Vening is also there. He is another boy so the stress level might be higher. I am thinking about donating him to local ZNA auction.

    18. #18
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      I have reluctantly given my kobayashi shiro another year too, only because I had another 30" koi pass away with a tumor and had room, but got another Omosako tosai that I like more so far and just updated on a thread here.

    19. #19
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      This is just my personal opinion, but I keep hearing people say to have patience and the best sumi comes up later. Well, I would only agree with that if there are other redeeming factors that would warrant the wait. Because I would like to enjoy it now and later... not just later.

      If the sumi shrinks(like this did), but still retains an excellent body and/or skin quality, then maybe it's worth the wait. Personally, I'm not excited about the the growth nor body, although the skin is still good... I would not be waiting on this one. As a tosai, it's beautiful.

      Not saying that it's good or bad, right or wrong. Everyone has their own opinion and criteria. If you still enjoy it, keep it... if you have doubts, maybe it's time to try something new. Just saying.

    20. #20
      JL41 is offline Senior Member
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      Yeah this one will be the first to go next year if I need to rehome a fish. Doesn't really make sense to get rid of it right now because the feeding season is over and in my climate they won't eat anything from November til April, so no concern about water quality or space in pond etc. So I will reevaluate in the spring.

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