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  • Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
    Results 41 to 60 of 154

    Thread: A Sad Day for the WWKC and the koiphen forum

    1. #41
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      So, what exactly is considered "unrelated" business income? I mean, it's not like we seek funds from sources outside of the hobby we associate with do we?
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    2. #42
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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      So, what exactly is considered "unrelated" business income? I mean, it's not like we seek funds from sources outside of the hobby we associate with do we?
      Hi Mike - I am not sure but I think they may be talking about those pesky popup ads that many websites do. We have never done that and I hope we never do.

    3. #43
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      Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
      Hi Tim. Do you have a link to the appliantology forum? I think I want to join. Our toaster went bad and I think it will cost more than $150 to get it fixed from the repairman. Thanks!
      Appliantology.org...
      Tim can always be reached at 850-380-7824 or timnye850@gmail.com

    4. #44
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      One of the realities about forums (all types) is that there is only so much that can be covered and often very little new or breaking information. I mean how many times can one discuss leaf nets, ST and how to lay block? So after a while it gets boring. I still often recommend KP to people as I do feel it has great info, particulary for new hobbyists. But for many, it simply becomes boring. So how to keep people interested is a matter of new content. Building a suitable koi pond and koi keeping is quite easy, and once done there is little to learn but koi themselves. I've noticed myself that I often browse through old threads searching for content that interests me. I tend to enjoy the physiology and bloodline content, more than leaf nets. But increasingly this content is diappearing. And it's not just this forum it's actually the hobby itself, where people are more interested in chatting than learning. This is a bad thing for the hobby. So, I really don't have an answer in how to make this better place. And yes, I am disheartened to see the numbers go down.
      Last edited by Appliance Guy; 3 Weeks Ago at 09:35 PM.
      Tim can always be reached at 850-380-7824 or timnye850@gmail.com

    5. #45
      audioenvy's Avatar
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      I'm new to this hobby so my forum interest is quite high right now. I'm sure it will fade as I learn more and have been through everything once.

      Forums in general are on the decline but I think it's because of the emergence of Facebook and YouTube. This forum is no different. If there is a decline in posting I don't think it's something wrong with this specific forum nor could one necessarily conclude that it's due to a global lack of interest in koi.

    6. #46
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      So, what exactly is considered "unrelated" business income? I mean, it's not like we seek funds from sources outside of the hobby we associate with do we?
      I read it as any income generated from a non-member who isn't a guest (guest = member of Koiphen but not of the WWKC):

      The Internal Revenue Code provides special rules for calculating the unrelated business taxable income of social and recreational clubs that are tax-exempt under section 501(c)(7).
      Under these rules, clubs are generally taxed on income from non-members who are not bona fide guests of members. The fact that income derived from non-members is used by an
      exempt organization in furthering its exempt purpose (such as expanding the club's facilities) does not change the fact that the income is from an unrelated activity and must be reported
      on Form 990-T.


      One example would be a banner advertiser that has no membership with Koiphen. Money generated by ads from Google and such would be
      included in my understanding. I counted Tri-State Koi Club show banner ad as non-member income.

      I'm sure no tax expert but I'd just like to not come too close to make it even questionable. Here's the link if anyone would like
      to check it out too: https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-pr...s/social-clubs
      Like most things with the IRS there's multiple tiers so one thing leads to another, and another, and...
      --Steve
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    7. #47
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      Some of us have been here for a long time, find ourselves answering the same questions over and over. Some of the "experts" in addition to "my way or the highway" were arrogant and grew tired of repeating themselves. What I have found is that technology changes and some people don't, information (rules of thumb) change or is disproved, but people are reluctant. There is enough new information each year for me to continue to learn, though I probably do more teaching than learning. Yes, once upon a time, we had lots of judges that were very opinionated, not necessarily good teachers as they sat on top of Mount Olympus and tore everything up. We had a few breeders, but they weren't Japanese, and therefore they didn't have any good koi. Many visit, read, and go about doing what they wanted to anyway, not sticking around to get newer or better information, afraid that they would look like fools if they opened their mouth. Many come to get an answer, like in the ER, and then disappear.

      Because I have been here for many years, and because I have duties associated with moderation/administration/governance that require posting that none see, I probably post less often than most. Why? I don't like to say "me too", or start a war over nothing. If I can help, or think I can, I speak up, and the rest of the time, I sit back and read, like every post by every one in every sub forum. I suspect that there are others that just read to learn and try not to rock the boat.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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      Richard

    8. #48
      cindy's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by rainblood View Post
      I hesitate to post on this thread...it seems a bit touchy on both sides.
      I think, for the most part, everyone has a valid point to some degree, whether its optimistic or pessimistic.
      I also think by design that this is a social forum with a great construction side. Its tough because I dont think that a koi forum can survive...obviously look at the long list of defunct sites. I just don't think a koi forum is a sustainable model. We should be learning from all of the defunct sites instead of saying we are the best because we are still alive.
      Its the inherent nature of the hobbyist...we all reach a glass ceiling where we cannot invest anymore time or money in the hobby at which point we slow down with buying fish, posting, building, giving advice, etc. This is when we start to sit back silently, browse threads, look at pictures, make fun of friends, wait for dealers to go to Japan and post pics.
      On the topic of koi experts...its a double edged sword. Most experts are good at arguing and not really teaching. They have huge egos and are long winded. Beyond tooting their own horns, they tend to be somewhat vague and ambiguous so that they are never really wrong. But they provide insight and experience. Its also a one way street for them, what do they get for correcting people all the time or explaining the same thing year after year? I wasn't around for a lot of the experts...I have read some of JRs stuff on KB and Waddy on FB. Both seem to be egomaniacs. The only expert I miss really is Junichi. I really liked him.
      As far as the WWKC...I feel that I've given a lot to this site in my prime koi years. I've posted everything that I've done - pond build, fish buys, meeting different koi people, koi shows, lizards, bugs....I hope that someone learned something from my many mistakes and my accidental genius moments.
      .
      Quote Originally Posted by RichToyBox View Post
      Some of us have been here for a long time, find ourselves answering the same questions over and over. Some of the "experts" in addition to "my way or the highway" were arrogant and grew tired of repeating themselves. What I have found is that technology changes and some people don't, information (rules of thumb) change or is disproved, but people are reluctant. There is enough new information each year for me to continue to learn, though I probably do more teaching than learning. Yes, once upon a time, we had lots of judges that were very opinionated, not necessarily good teachers as they sat on top of Mount Olympus and tore everything up. We had a few breeders, but they weren't Japanese, and therefore they didn't have any good koi. Many visit, read, and go about doing what they wanted to anyway, not sticking around to get newer or better information, afraid that they would look like fools if they opened their mouth. Many come to get an answer, like in the ER, and then disappear.

      Because I have been here for many years, and because I have duties associated with moderation/administration/governance that require posting that none see, I probably post less often than most. Why? I don't like to say "me too", or start a war over nothing. If I can help, or think I can, I speak up, and the rest of the time, I sit back and read, like every post by every one in every sub forum. I suspect that there are others that just read to learn and try not to rock the boat.

      Me too.

      I came for the koi and stayed for the people.

      Guess it does get boring for members that know everything. I don't and constantly read and learn. Like to share what I know.

      Online WWKC koi and goldfish show! Get your pictures ready.
      My opinions in ER and on this forum are mine only. Use my advice at your own discretion.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."


      K.O.I.

      Member: EIHIOICGI

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...nd-Information

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...06#post2606106 Show thread

    9. #49
      kevin32's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by RichToyBox View Post
      Some of us have been here for a long time, find ourselves answering the same questions over and over. Some of the "experts" in addition to "my way or the highway" were arrogant and grew tired of repeating themselves. What I have found is that technology changes and some people don't, information (rules of thumb) change or is disproved, but people are reluctant. There is enough new information each year for me to continue to learn, though I probably do more teaching than learning. Yes, once upon a time, we had lots of judges that were very opinionated, not necessarily good teachers as they sat on top of Mount Olympus and tore everything up. We had a few breeders, but they weren't Japanese, and therefore they didn't have any good koi. Many visit, read, and go about doing what they wanted to anyway, not sticking around to get newer or better information, afraid that they would look like fools if they opened their mouth. Many come to get an answer, like in the ER, and then disappear.

      Because I have been here for many years, and because I have duties associated with moderation/administration/governance that require posting that none see, I probably post less often than most. Why? I don't like to say "me too", or start a war over nothing. If I can help, or think I can, I speak up, and the rest of the time, I sit back and read, like every post by every one in every sub forum. I suspect that there are others that just read to learn and try not to rock the boat.
      you have been one of the most informative and laid back on here. I actually joined the forum for health care of my koi. I have learned alot and i like coming to forums for help. I'm not really a facebook or Twitter type, I started on automotive forums and it just stuck on me lol.

    10. #50
      cindy's Avatar
      cindy is offline Moderator ~ WWKC Vice President ~
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      I think some stop posting and just read because the some that post their opinion have to be right. Why answer and then have to defend yourself?
      Last edited by cindy; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:23 AM.
      My opinions in ER and on this forum are mine only. Use my advice at your own discretion.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."


      K.O.I.

      Member: EIHIOICGI

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...nd-Information

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...06#post2606106 Show thread

    11. #51
      Pond,James_Pond's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      I think you're missing the point of this thread. I'm not referring to how many forum members post or join, it's the ones who use this site for free and don't feel any type of want to support the organization that hosts the forum on line. ...

      ... what I currently see and it saddens me that most want all the benefits but don't want to put any effort into receiving them. Of course, if you're not a member of the WWKC, I guess that puts you in the majority within the last sentence above. Audioenvy just became a prime example of what I hope many would do once they come here and get the advice on how to DIY their own ponds and are successful - join the club. It's the cheapest investment you could make over what you spend building your pond!
      It appears there are two "asks" here. One, people should volunteer to help run the club. Admin and web IT support are the only needs I see. Are there others?
      And two, the need to pay for the advice the club offers. Is the club in danger of running out of money to pay for the website? Are there other costs to run the club? Do we rent a hall somewhere?

      I've been hesitant to join the WWKC because I've had difficulty obtaining information on; what is the cost to run the website? and how much money does the club have in "prudent reserve?"

      I've been a member of other clubs and when it came to money, especially too much money, the club suffered. If I was sure the club was only collecting enough money to run the website, and not sitting on a purse trying to figure out how to spend the excess, I'd happily join to support the website.

      steve

    12. #52
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pond,James_Pond View Post
      It appears there are two "asks" here. One, people should volunteer to help run the club. Admin and web IT support are the only needs I see. Are there others?
      And two, the need to pay for the advice the club offers. Is the club in danger of running out of money to pay for the website? Are there other costs to run the club? Do we rent a hall somewhere?

      I've been hesitant to join the WWKC because I've had difficulty obtaining information on; what is the cost to run the website? and how much money does the club have in "prudent reserve?"

      I've been a member of other clubs and when it came to money, especially too much money, the club suffered. If I was sure the club was only collecting enough money to run the website, and not sitting on a purse trying to figure out how to spend the excess, I'd happily join to support the website.

      steve
      Steve or icu2 does a treasury report that shows where the money goes etc..there has been a + on the last few ones. we have also had a - before.
      Last edited by kevin32; 2 Weeks Ago at 04:34 PM.

    13. #53
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pond,James_Pond View Post
      It appears there are two "asks" here. One, people should volunteer to help run the club. Admin and web IT support are the only needs I see. Are there others?
      And two, the need to pay for the advice the club offers. Is the club in danger of running out of money to pay for the website? Are there other costs to run the club? Do we rent a hall somewhere?

      I've been hesitant to join the WWKC because I've had difficulty obtaining information on; what is the cost to run the website? and how much money does the club have in "prudent reserve?"

      I've been a member of other clubs and when it came to money, especially too much money, the club suffered. If I was sure the club was only collecting enough money to run the website, and not sitting on a purse trying to figure out how to spend the excess, I'd happily join to support the website.

      steve
      I won't pretend to speak for Mike but can try and answer some of the other questions.
      The Club needs Officers and Board of Directors to operate. Non of the jobs are difficult but like everything they take a certain amount of time
      and pay nothing.
      We actually don't need admin or IT support. We used to rely on volunteers for that with varied results. Now the site has grown to the size that I think
      it would be more than most of us that do this for free would want to undertake... even if we had the knowledge to do it. We pay Charles at
      CTC Design to maintain both websites and help us with invaluable support services. He designed and built the WWKC website and transferred all the
      information from the old to the new for no charge. If you ever visited the old site and haven't checked out the new one you should. Enormous difference:
      www.worldwidekoiclub.com

      The Club and Koiphen are not in danger of running out of money... plain and simple. But with that said there's no way I'd want to sit back and try
      and operate on just enough to keep us going month to month. I think most of us don't do that with our own family budgets and the same thing
      applies but maybe more so with a Club. We've had years where we were in the red. I think during that period many koi/pond sites disappeared due
      to the inability to sustain themselves. I'd rather not get to that position.

      The Clubs "hall" is Koiphen. It is our meeting place so you could kind of say we do sort of rent it to gather in. Tech support and server space costs
      us about $500 a month. But just like other tax exempt Clubs we have a mission to promote the hobby we all enjoy and not simply pay for the Club's
      meeting place. We sponsor up to 10 KOI Certified Koi Keeper scholarships, pay any costs incurred from hosting the Virtual Koi Show, Cindy makes
      WWKC Friendship Awards to present at other Club's shows, and I hope to have a "library" of meters and test kits available for loan to Members soon.
      That's some examples of where a certain amount of the Club's other funds go now.

      I don't think any of us sit around and think of where we can spend any excess funds. I'd like to think we hold a good size reserve only to ensure the
      site will be around even as competition from other social media platforms grow. I report the Clubs financial balance at every Club quarterly meeting so
      I don't think it's a big secret... so right now our reserve balance could sustain the website for about 5 years if income funds dried up and we spent no
      money on anything else... which I think is about right. Since the beginning of the year our balance is -$177, so as far as
      cash flow, we're treading water.

      Sorry, long post, but I hope that answers some of your questions. If I can answer any others feel free to ask!
      --Steve
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      "It is far better to be alone, than to be in bad company." --George Washington

    14. #54
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pond,James_Pond View Post
      It appears there are two "asks" here. One, people should volunteer to help run the club. Admin and web IT support are the only needs I see. Are there others?
      And two, the need to pay for the advice the club offers. Is the club in danger of running out of money to pay for the website? Are there other costs to run the club? Do we rent a hall somewhere?

      I've been hesitant to join the WWKC because I've had difficulty obtaining information on; what is the cost to run the website? and how much money does the club have in "prudent reserve?"

      I've been a member of other clubs and when it came to money, especially too much money, the club suffered. If I was sure the club was only collecting enough money to run the website, and not sitting on a purse trying to figure out how to spend the excess, I'd happily join to support the website.

      steve
      Sorry Steve, but for $29/yr this sounds like nothing but a poor excuse. For all the posts that you've made with good support of others, I'm sorry, but it isn't really about the money, at least not that amount. That's less than half the cost of a 5 kilo bag of fish food and I'm not talking the really expensive stuff either!
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    15. #55
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      I guess you have to be a senior member, I tried was told I didn't have access

    16. #56
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Shirley15 View Post
      I guess you have to be a senior member, I tried was told I didn't have access
      No, you don't have to be a senior member, just a Worldwide Koi Club (WWKC) member.

      Here's some history of who and what is the WWKC:

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ck-is-the-WWKC
      --Steve
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    17. #57
      Pond,James_Pond's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      Sorry Steve, but for $29/yr this sounds like nothing but a poor excuse. For all the posts that you've made with good support of others, I'm sorry, but it isn't really about the money, at least not that amount. That's less than half the cost of a 5 kilo bag of fish food and I'm not talking the really expensive stuff either!
      I agree, Mike, it's not about the amount. Anytime I voluntarily give money, any amount, to a charitable organization I want to know where the money is going to be spent. That's all.

      steve

    18. #58
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post

      Sorry, long post, but I hope that answers some of your questions. If I can answer any others feel free to ask!
      Thanks for the reply, Steve. That really explains what I've been wanting to know for a few years. Other queries were met with, "well, if you want to know that, then you have to be a member."

      steve

    19. #59
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pond,James_Pond View Post
      I agree, Mike, it's not about the amount. Anytime I voluntarily give money, any amount, to a charitable organization I want to know where the money is going to be spent. That's all.

      steve
      I guess there are defining points on what makes a "charitable" organization, and under what I would define one as, I totally agree. Too many mis-appropriate funds that don't really get to the meat of the reason they exist, providing support for a cause. I too am very skeptical of these groups. I just don't see the comparison being made between them and a hobbyist group trying to support a "free for all" forum for advancement of said "hobby".
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    20. #60
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      most of us started at the bottom and made our our way up. I would type in issues with my koi and koiphen always popped up. at first I just browsed and was to intimidated to post. after finally posting and learning even more I decided to become a wwkc member to help keep things moving. nobody is forced to join but a little $ here and there sure helps keep things moving. as mike said $29 a year is nothing really.

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