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  • Results 1 to 12 of 12

    Thread: White "pimple" on koi's back

    1. #1
      William46 is offline Junior Member
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      White "pimple" on koi's back

      Hello everybody,

      It has been a very long time since I posted in the forums, but I must admit I read often the boards and specially the critique sections where I learned a lot, I must thank to everybody for sharing their knowledge on regards all the aspects and characteristics of the koi.

      However, one sometimes do not think that one day will be writing in the health subforum and I learned that at least once in lifetime koi keepers will meet a health issue with their koi.

      Recently I have seen that my kohaku has grown a sort of white "pimple" near her dorsal fin. I thought it may be a parasite so I netted her to take a closer look. The feel is somewhat hard, and the scale below it is a bit brighter as if the "pimple" is pushing the scale up.
      It seems it has a kind of tiny root and the shadow in the picture can give a clue of the height of the "pimple". The kohaku is approximately 40-45cm (16-17inch) long.



      I must apologize for the bad quality of the picture, it is the first time I have koi this size and I did not want to stress her, in fact she was very calm while I took a look. She has a very mellow behaviour always, and although it had to be to inspect a problem, I never had the extraordinary experience before of being in contact with the koi this size so close, always wish to bowl them and take some pictures but I am always afraid they may stress so my rule is only do that when necessary.

      Since this kind of pimple appeared, she hasn't changed, swims greacefully, eat well as always.

      I would like to give some extra information regarding my pond so that it may help to determine better this issue.

      I have other seven koi ranging from 18cm to 25cm and they don't have any problem (but space problem).

      Although the basic water parameters are within the limits (0 ammonia, 0 NO2, 0 NO3, Ph7-8, Kh 9 dh my pond is only 2500 l - 660 gal, so it is way, way over stocked. I am aware of this and currently planning a bigger home for them.

      This kohaku is the bigger of all of them, could this kind of white pimple be a symptom of space problem for the koi to develop properly? I have checked on Internet and this issue also seems to happen to goldfish.


      Hopefully somebody could give me a clue on what may the problem be. She is very special for us, I have her since she was tosai and since then became another member of our family.

      I would like to thank everybody contributing in the forums giving their best of support, help and experience. Although I don't write in the forums as much as I wish, I must admit that Koiphen has been a source for me in learning about koi.


      Best wishes from Spain,

      Guillem

    2. #2
      cindy's Avatar
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      Hi Guillem,

      7 koi in 660 gallons is a lot but it looks like you are doing ok on your water quality.

      You have 2 options. You can sedate and remove it or watch and see if it grows or gets red. For right now, I would choose to watch.

      The little spots on the bottom of the fish, are they attached or in the water?
      My opinions in ER and on this forum are mine only. Use my advice at your own discretion.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."


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    3. #3
      William46 is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by cindy View Post
      Hi Guillem,

      7 koi in 660 gallons is a lot but it looks like you are doing ok on your water quality.

      You have 2 options. You can sedate and remove it or watch and see if it grows or gets red. For right now, I would choose to watch.

      The little spots on the bottom of the fish, are they attached or in the water?

      Hello Cindy,

      Thank you very much for your reply!

      Yes, I also think that perhaps is better to watch and see how it develops to take a decision, it may be a bit earlier to determine yet.
      The spots on the bottom I believe they are particles in the water as I saw similar spots next to the fish

      I will keep the post updated and will keep a close look at the koi

      Thanks once again Cindy!

      Best wishes,
      Guillem

    4. #4
      nmtsaki's Avatar
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      I would love to see a picture of her from farther away also, so that 1) we can see her!! and 2) see how big the growth is relative to her overall size. I would also try to put a rate on how fast (and if) it grows. I had a similar growth on one of my koi's lip when it was young, and it disappeared as it became older and larger. Maybe age adds immunity, or hormones as they get older kicked in and decreased it, who knows? But it did get pretty big (1 cm) then was gone. It was a slow growth though, also.

      Keep us posted!


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    5. #5
      William46 is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by nmtsaki View Post
      I would love to see a picture of her from farther away also, so that 1) we can see her!! and 2) see how big the growth is relative to her overall size. I would also try to put a rate on how fast (and if) it grows. I had a similar growth on one of my koi's lip when it was young, and it disappeared as it became older and larger. Maybe age adds immunity, or hormones as they get older kicked in and decreased it, who knows? But it did get pretty big (1 cm) then was gone. It was a slow growth though, also.

      Keep us posted!
      Hello nmtsaki!

      Sorry for my late reply! Had a bit difficult week.

      Yesterday I was able to net the fish and it seems that the pimple is not raised anymore, the bright white of the pimple disappeared to become a bit more translucent and this color got the shape of the scale below, so I am guessing there may be some issue with the scale, but at least nothing is coming out in a shape of a pimple as before.

      I uploaded some pictures of the Kohaku, but I would apologize in first place because of the quality of these images.

      You may notice that she has an injury on the left side of her head, above the eye. I am not sure how this was caused but that day some kids came at home, so perhaps the fish got stressed. After this happened I removed all the nearest stones just in case. I did not open a post on regards her head injury as I kept a close look and it seemed only superficial, also I was able to check that no infections are present (I think, from what I can see).

      A bit of information regarding this Kohaku, she is from Torazo, purchased here in Spain on April 2016, she was purchased as tosai measuring approximately 12cm - 15cm (4.7inch - 5.9inch) and to this day she is approximately 45cm long (17.7inch).

      This is my first Kohaku and I always remember the "it starts with Kohaku and ends with Kohaku" but I think that this variety of koi has became my favorite, in this particular case I am always amazed how gentle she is even when I had to net her.

      The pictures:

      I must say that, although the fin seem that went through the net hole, the fish came out smoothly and easily, even smoother than the first time I netted her, so although no injuries are done on the fins, I know that it is about time to get a decent koi net and koi sock net. I will not net any other fish until I got these.


      These 3 photos are from a month or so ago







      Closeup of the current state, note that apparently the white on that scale does seem to be flat to the body as seen in person:


      As tosai



      Sorry for the bad quality of these photos
      I need to get some decent koi equipment and start to prepare a bigger pond

      Have a nice weekend,
      Guillem
      Last edited by William46; 2 Weeks Ago at 11:59 AM. Reason: writing mistake

    6. #6
      William46 is offline Junior Member
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      Hello again everybody,

      I have been thinking about the scale that appears to be brighter. Could this scenario be possible?
      That is, the kind of "pimple" came out, then it pushed the scale outwards, but now that the "pimple" seems to have disappeared, perhaps the edge of the scale displaced a bit and therefore it shows this brighter color underneath, or should be a bit pinkish...

      In any case, I will keep a close look and try to update the post

    7. #7
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      The white pimple could have been skin that grew through, kind of like a skin tag we get. It could have damaged the red pigment within the skin under the scale. That would be unfortunate as this is a beautiful Kohaku from Torazo. I have found over many years, even his less quality fish can be quite stunning.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    8. #8
      William46 is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      The white pimple could have been skin that grew through, kind of like a skin tag we get. It could have damaged the red pigment within the skin under the scale. That would be unfortunate as this is a beautiful Kohaku from Torazo. I have found over many years, even his less quality fish can be quite stunning.
      Hello Mike,

      Thanks a lot for your response. I also want to take this chance to thank you for your contribution on the forums. I have been following for some time now the koi judging subforum and I must admit that your comments together with the ones of other members of this forum, I have learned what I know today about koi

      Although I had koi from pet stores in the past, this Kohaku is one of my first Japanese breeder's fish and I am enjoying very much to see her swimming and eatting, I just wish I could have a bigger pond and have more Kohakus, the bigger pond wish I guess is in the mind of most of us

      Best wishes,
      Guillem

    9. #9
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      Thanks for the kind comments. I am glad you learned something from mine and other's postings. That truly is a pretty nice fish. It certainly is too bad you can't make a bigger pond, not just to add MORE fish but to give the fish you already have MORE room to grow.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    10. #10
      William46 is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      Thanks for the kind comments. I am glad you learned something from mine and other's postings. That truly is a pretty nice fish. It certainly is too bad you can't make a bigger pond, not just to add MORE fish but to give the fish you already have MORE room to grow.
      Hello Mike,

      Fortunately I have space, so it is now time to make a bigger home for them, so that means reading the forums and getting as much information as possible the first mistake was already made, go big or go home, but I have to say that I discovered about koi some time after I built the pond.

      Talking about growth (and sorry for changing a little bit the subject of the post), does the growth rate continue in a bigger pond as it was in the smaller pond, or the fish recovers the growth rate that was "lost" in the smaller pond? I think that the fish may have its growth affected if the pond is small or overstocked (although that does not mean it will stop growing if it has to from what I read about the hormone) for example in this particular Kohaku, she has grown bigger and faster than the other fish, but maybe she has now not enough room to grow properly, so this situation may slow down its growth, from the time she is in the small pond till she is in a bigger pond, will this slow growth develop still slowly once in the bigger pond or the fish will just keep on growing till its "genetics limit" regardless where she has been?.

      I am not sure if I explained myself well, just wondering if the koi can reach its maximum growth in a bigger pond after being in a smaller pond with a slower growth rate for some time.

      Thanks for your help!

      Best wishes,
      Guillem

    11. #11
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      Hi William

      The answer to your question about growth, well, it can go both ways. It really depends on the genetics of the fish and the amount of filtration turnover that's provided. I've tested the "stunted" fish theory a few times and found that fish that I had kept in my 1250gal qtank for 3-4 years grew to be no more than roughly 13"-14". I then placed them in the main pond, roughly 10,000gal and they grew to 18"+ that one year. So, in this case, judging from the looks of this Kohaku, and hoping it's from one of Torazo's better oyagoi lines, I would say giving her a bigger area with BETTER FILTRATION turnover and larger water changes, yes she still can grow to her potential. My guess here would be around 28"-30" in 3-5 years. This will of course somewhat depend on your stocking density, amount of food given and when and your skills at water manipulation.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    12. #12
      William46 is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      Hi William

      The answer to your question about growth, well, it can go both ways. It really depends on the genetics of the fish and the amount of filtration turnover that's provided. I've tested the "stunted" fish theory a few times and found that fish that I had kept in my 1250gal qtank for 3-4 years grew to be no more than roughly 13"-14". I then placed them in the main pond, roughly 10,000gal and they grew to 18"+ that one year. So, in this case, judging from the looks of this Kohaku, and hoping it's from one of Torazo's better oyagoi lines, I would say giving her a bigger area with BETTER FILTRATION turnover and larger water changes, yes she still can grow to her potential. My guess here would be around 28"-30" in 3-5 years. This will of course somewhat depend on your stocking density, amount of food given and when and your skills at water manipulation.
      Hello Mike,

      Thanks a lot for your response!

      Will do my best with the new pond, have to planify everything well and thanks to the resources on the forum and mistakes I made before, I am sure this new pond will turn out satisfactory.
      I will keep updated about her growth, let's see the next couple of summers how things go but the most important is take good care of the fish (better said; good care of the water which in the end is the environment where they live in) alongside the new pond construction.

      Best wishes,
      Guillem

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