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  • Results 1 to 12 of 12

    Thread: selecting the proper external pump

    1. #1
      anthony777 is offline Junior Member
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      Question selecting the proper external pump

      Hello
      i'm in the process of building a koi pond and would love some help in choosing an appropriate pump.
      below some info about the pond.
      gunnite circular pond, 6 feet deep. about 10000 gallons
      two skimmers (4" pvc pipes below coping) at either side and a bottom drain Rhino II 4".
      two aerators from the bottom. a 2 inch return pipe midway up the wall.
      the two skimmers join just past the pond and a 4" pipe heads to the filtration shed.
      the bottom drain 4 " pipe heads to the shed.
      both are to be connected to a cyclone vortex 7500 system (gravity fed) after which i was going to have an external pump to pump the water back to the pond.

      the filtration shed is 100 feet from the pond and the pump would be about 4 feet below the return pipe into the pond.
      i'm a bit confused with the TDH calculations etc...
      1. What brand would you recommend?
      2. hp?
      3. i assume high head?
      4. 10000 GPH?
      5. is the placement of the pump correct after the filtration system?



      i really would appreciate any help i can get.
      i thank you all
      t

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    2. #2
      seeker23 is offline Junior Member
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      Hi!

      I cannot answer all of your questions since I'm just a newbie; however, I'd like to answer those to the extent of my knowledge.

      1. I don't have much knowledge about brands yet, but I did came across some interesting websites like Power Jack Motion BLDC Pumps: Energy Saving Water Pumps and Watergarden (they have a detailed guide on how to choose the best pump for you, I'll be posting the link below); you can have their sites checked out!

      2. HP = "First determine the vertical distance in feet above the water surface, this is the STATIC HEAD. Next, use our Friction Loss Chart to determine your FRICTION HEAD. Add this to your PRESSURE HEAD and you can use this figure to size the pump." - How to Select the Proper Pond or Water Garden Pump, Waterhead

      3. Can't understand your question, sorry.

      4. Based on ideal flow rate, which is the first thing you should consider when buying a pump, it should be half of the volume of your pond — yours is approx 10000 gallons, so it should be around 5000 GPH.

      5. I don't know the answer, sorry.

      These are answers from a beginner so better have these fact-checked. I got the answers from
      Selecting the Proper Pump. Hope this helps!

    3. #3
      birdman's Avatar
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      What filtration, bio and mech, are you using after the pump.
      I need some more info to be able to help you.
      Give me a call if you want and we can go over your options.

    4. #4
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is offline Administrator ~ WWKC President
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      Quote Originally Posted by anthony777 View Post
      Hello
      i'm in the process of building a koi pond and would love some help in choosing an appropriate pump.
      below some info about the pond.
      gunnite circular pond, 6 feet deep. about 10000 gallons
      two skimmers (4" pvc pipes below coping) at either side and a bottom drain Rhino II 4".
      two aerators from the bottom. a 2 inch return pipe midway up the wall.
      the two skimmers join just past the pond and a 4" pipe heads to the filtration shed.
      the bottom drain 4 " pipe heads to the shed.
      both are to be connected to a cyclone vortex 7500 system (gravity fed) after which i was going to have an external pump to pump the water back to the pond.

      the filtration shed is 100 feet from the pond and the pump would be about 4 feet below the return pipe into the pond.
      i'm a bit confused with the TDH calculations etc...
      1. What brand would you recommend?
      2. hp?
      3. i assume high head?
      4. 10000 GPH?
      5. is the placement of the pump correct after the filtration system?



      i really would appreciate any help i can get.
      i thank you all
      t
      These can't handle much draw down in them at all and is why I'm not a big fan of the Vortex systems. The flow limit shows to be limited to 3000-4000 gph.
      Not enough turnover for this size pond imo. If it were mine I'd run the BD to the Vortex system with one pump sized to the flow limit and and run the skimmers
      to a separate filtration circuit with another pump.
      --Steve



      Koiphen 2021 Koi Person of the Year!

    5. #5
      anthony777 is offline Junior Member
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      First
      i thank you all for the replies.

      Birdman (steve)- i wasn't planning on anything after the pump. the vortex system has three tanks, first a settling chamber, 2nd mechanical filtration and third is the biofilter then the pump back to the pond.
      i currently do have a bead pressurized filtration that i can easily connect after the pump if you think that would be necessary or just helpful?.
      i may take you up on the call

      ICU2- the more i read the more i think you may be right. it's very disappointing considering the investment i've already made. perhaps i need to change to two pumps like you suggest.

      just an update i purchased a Performance Pro Artesian 2- 1 1/2-HH. perhaps i should connect that to the bottom drain like ICU2 suggested otherwise it may be too much power to pull from the cyclone system?
      t

    6. #6
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      That, unfortunately, was not a really wise purchase. Those HH(high head) pumps are like pool pumps and are serious energy hogs. Truthfully, if it's running at 3450rpm, it really isn't designed to run 24/7. Centrifugal pumps that are used for ponds run at 1725prm and can run all day/night with no issues. Besides, that pump is way too much for pump for that cyclone.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net




      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    7. #7
      anthony777 is offline Junior Member
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      thanks mike
      do you recommend exchanging it for Artesian II -1/2-76 which runs at 1725 RPM?

    8. #8
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      I won't recommend anything at this moment. You really need to decide what filtration you will be using. You mention the pond is planned to be 10,000gal and 6' deep. What are the overall dimensions? Why only one drain and TWO skimmers? I will start to provide recommendations when you give me more to work with. I don't want to shoot in the dark here. Are you really serious about using that vortex filter system? It's really restricting, and you can't expect to combine the 2 skimmers and a bottom drain into a single 4" pipe at the filter. Picture a traffic jam in New York City. All that water, which should be able to flow 3000-4500gph EACH is restricted to no more than roughly 4000-4500gph TOTAL. Very inefficient design.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net




      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    9. #9
      anthony777 is offline Junior Member
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      understood.
      regarding your question about why one BD and 2 skimmers, if i could do over i would do two BD and Two skimmers.
      anyhow the pond is circular with radius of 7.5 feet ( 15 foot diameter) and 6 feet deep but the walls have a gentle slope at the bottom two feet all the way to the BD to allow for proper drainage.
      i've forgo the vortex system (a wasted $2,400) and now will get an ultra sieve III rated at around 9000GPH. Has two inlets so that will be ideal to connect the two 4" pipes. after that i'll connect
      a low RPM (1725) pump which can handle around 8k gallons at 5 ft. then connect a GC Tek alpha one filter 9000 or 6000 and from there back to the 2 inch return pipe to the pond.
      thoughts?

    10. #10
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      The US III handles a MAX flow of about 7500gph. This is better than the first plan but you will still need to be able to control the flow from the two 'joined" skimmers each with a max of roughly 1750-2000gph if you actually can max out the sieve. You're still underfiltered going this route as your turnover rate is still close to at least 1 1/2hrs. Also, the Alpha filter will give you good mechanical, but you're still lacking real bio filtration. Why not add a shower unit? You will also need more than one 2" return back to the pond.

      The size of this pond you're planning is a serious size that requires sufficient filtration to maintain it. BTW, at those measurements, I only come up with about 7952gal full to the brim. More likely, you'll have about 7500. That's okay, the better suits some of the filter ideas here, but still not enough.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net




      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    11. #11
      tbullard is offline Senior Member
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      Not sure how close he is to you but this could be an option for one stop shopping. https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...mps-and-13-koi

    12. #12
      birdman's Avatar
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      Had a real nice chat with Anthony and he will be able to return his high speed pump in exchange for a standard Artesian pump.

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