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  • Results 1 to 16 of 16

    Thread: Holes in Ogon head?

    1. #1
      koinoober is offline Member
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      Holes in Ogon head?

      I noticed that my 3 Platinum & Yamabuki Ogon have tiny bubble like holes on their head.
      Is this an Ogon thing or a disease? Because I don't think I see it on my other varieties.

      I've had "hole in the head" disease on my tropical Oscars before, but it's nothing like that. That was crater like and this is more like braille. It seems to start from the mouth and nostrils, and going along the sides, near the eyes.

      I hear the term "clean head" when selecting Koi, but are these an example of what people would avoid?
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    2. #2
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      Normal.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    3. #3
      koiman1950's Avatar
      koiman1950 is offline Senior Member ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
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      Yep. normal. Nothing to worry about.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    4. #4
      koinoober is offline Member
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      Phew, that's one less thing to worry about, thanks.

      Just curious, but are these actually doing something(sensors) or more like "freckles"?
      And am I not mistaken that I only see it on ogons?

    5. #5
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      Most metallic varieties have them it's just that they're not as easy to see like on single colored fish like Yamas and Platinums.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    6. #6
      Orlando is offline Senior Member
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      I truly thank you for keeping your eyes on them that closely.

    7. #7
      kdh's Avatar
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      Many years ago my yama had these. I started to hunt and find what they are. If I remember correctly. They are sensors for vibration.

    8. #8
      rcmike is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by kdh View Post
      Many years ago my yama had these. I started to hunt and find what they are. If I remember correctly. They are sensors for vibration.
      Yep, they are neuromasts and part of the lateral line system. If you look at the sides of fish there is a line that goes from head to tail also.



    9. #9
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      If that's true, why don't ALL koi have them, not just monochromatic ogons?
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    10. #10
      rcmike is offline Senior Member
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      They do have them, they just aren't as obvious.



    11. #11
      rcmike is offline Senior Member
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      Name:  4067-004-B32A2280.jpg
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Size:  34.4 KB



    12. #12
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      Double post.
      Last edited by rcmike; 08-13-2017 at 12:17 AM.



    13. #13
      rcmike is offline Senior Member
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      Just to clarify, are you talking about the holes that are lined up or the tiny bumps? I was looking at the holes. Maybe the bumps are tubercles that males get on the head and they are more visible on those type of koi?



    14. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by rcmike View Post
      They do have them, they just aren't as obvious.

      Yep. Same with the lateral line.
      Last edited by kdh; 08-13-2017 at 09:36 AM.

    15. #15
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by rcmike View Post
      Name:  4067-004-B32A2280.jpg
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      I see no indication of the "head canal region" having anything on the TOP of the head. Yes, there are two distinct different things visible on the head of ogons. The tiny bumps are visible on males and females alike. they are not sex tubercles, but those are what I was referring to. I agree, the holes have something to do with sensitivity like in the later al line. That I can see on ANY fish, not just koi.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    16. #16
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      what are the 'holes' in my koi's head!!!!

      At least once a season I get an email from a hobbyist asking about what disease their koi has?? The fish show tiny pin holes in the head!!! Usually the internet hobbyist will tell me they identified it as 'hole in the head' disease, but they see no treatment dose for fish larger than discus!! Number one-- YOUR fish do not have hole in the head disease! That's the good news. But they 'might' have environmental stress-- I say 'might' because I never know, from an email, IF the holes the owner is seeing are normal skull structure and sensory organs OR actually pitting in the skull.
      Before the KHA groups broke off from AKCA ( the AKCA KHV programs are alive and well by the way) and decided to form a group of formally trained health care hobbyists hoping to train koi hobbyists as an independent group, they did some valuable work in the area of koi physiology. Or at least in the 'parts' of koi. One of those 'parts' that is often overlooked are the specialized organs of the main organ of the skin. These are numerous- along the lateral line for instance, exists a series of 'holes' that act as senory organs ( a type of 'hearing') for the koi. This is the organ that is most affected when high aeration is added or a motor that is not isolated from piping vibrates thru the water column (any scuba diver reading this will know what I'm talking about and how the noise travels in water). There are 'other holes' in the nose area of a koi. These are also used for sent along with the barbels. And there is a special area at the center of the skull which 'photo sensitive' and acts as a kind of window to the brain ( pituitary). This area will often show a granulation over the life of a fish which is somewhat normal ( somewhat).
      The true disease ' hole in the head' can be parasitic driven, but more often is a nutritional problem. Koi suffer from no cush risk when feed a good quality pellet and some fresh/live food. That disease in marines is mostly a case of feeding the wrong food to a diet specific species for instance. Koi are omnivores ad scavangers and get a mean out of almost anything. And unlike some tropicals, there are no common parasites that create holes in the fish's skull.
      But koi can suffer from 'holes' in the skull and other bony structure including fins, due to captive conditions. It is hard for a fish that can survive alot of less than idea circumstances, to not show some wear and tear over a life time. I refer to this as 'premature aging' as ALL koi, given enough time ( 20 plus years) show anomolies in skull structure and texture. But a five year old with massive pitting and 'blemishes' and 'warts' is usually a poster child for the ravages of less than idea captivity.
      So if you do see your koi pitting early in life, do more water changes, have your water analyzed for metals and tested for other irritants like chloramines. And always remember that even when trying to do something 'good' by adding binders and additives, these things break down to other chemicals after exposure to water, sunlight and bacteria. This can build in a pond and remain undetected. That is a bad environment.
      Finally, test for nitrAte if just to know what your pond water's natural useful life is. If you want more information--- test your ORP. Even more-- test your BOD and get an oxygen meter. And know your alkaline reserve via a test or by watching your TDS.
      In the end, we take on a lot of responsibility when we take an animal under or care and literally hold it captive in a given set of parameters.

      A word to the wise ( and the caring, in this case) is sufficient. JR

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