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    Thread: "Pond"ering

    1. #141
      matherfish's Avatar
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      We have finally thawed out and the snow has melted. For the next 5 days and nights we will have "tolerable" (if that is a word. ) temps, which will give me an opportunity to get several things done. At least that is what I am thinking. What I think, and plan does not always happen, however. Things come up which take precedence over my time. Don't you have that happen in your life? And how is it that things often take much longer than we think they will? If it is not true in your world, welcome to mine!
      I have added two new projects to my "to do" list. I have two above ground ponds that leak and I have been using them to house some marginal plants which can actually remain out of water, but need their feet wet. Putting them in the leaking ponds allows us to soak the soil, therefore, soaking the roots. The pots then have wet soil but the water in the tank will seep out allowing the pot t dry somewhat over three or four days, keeping the plants from "drowning." I expect to sell many of these extra plants in the spring, thus no longer needing the ponds for this purpose. Both of the ponds are shallow, being only foot deep. They re great for starting lily tubers and seedlings, and this is what they were built to do. I have decided to empty the two ponds, and either patch the leaks or replace the liners so that they can again be used for their original purpose.
      Why would I want to spend the time doing this? Because the shallower ponds will heat up earlier and faster in the spring than deeper ponds. The deeper ponds, 16-30 inches, are needed for the plants to grow during the summer, but the plants will actually grow and thrive in the shallow ponds through the summer also, so they will give me additional pond space once the plants are started. Simply put, I need the ponds for plants that need to be covered in water!
      Are you "pond"ering ideas to get your plants started early? Maybe this is something to think about.
      Enjoy your "pond"ering!
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    2. #142
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      The time and weather are hard to get together this time of year.
      Good luck ...Frank



    3. #143
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      Thanks Delbert! Our weather has more ups and downs than a roller coaster. right now we are enjoying a pleasant sunny day with the temps rising into the 60s. Tomorrow's high will only be in the 40s however.
      Today's pondering centers around getting ready for spring and new purchases for our ponds. We get excited when we see something new that we really like, and get even more excited when we start thinking about how it can fit into our pond. This is part of what makes us enjoy our hobby so much. Adding a new item to any collection that we might have, or being able to attend an event of a sport we might like, or even finding a new receipt to our meal schedule can maybe compare.
      Almost every fish keeper knows the need of quarantining the new fish before adding it to our the pond with the existing fish but sometimes we get in hurry and do not take the time to do so. There are threads here on KP that point out how to quarantine, why to quarantine, and how long to do so.
      Plants can be very similar. You do not want to bring disease or pests into the environment of your healthy plants. You may not can quarantine it completely, but you can check it for disease and pests, and treat them preventively to avoid introducing harmful things to your pond.
      Among the easiest things to do is preventive. When your plant comes in, look it over carefully to see if you see anything detrimental. Depending on your findings, you then decide if the plant is healthy. Then, you should immerse the plant completely in water to drown insects that may be on the plant. Aphids and spider mites are among the insects that can be drowned. It will not kill any eggs however, but it is a simple way to kill off any "passengers." It is even better if you can immerse the plant into water containing potassium permanganate. This also kills off many of the insect hitchhikers. the plants only need to be immersed for about 30 minutes so it is not a long drawn out process. Once dipped, you might want to spray or dust the plant with something such as Dipel. This kills off caterpillars, including the dreaded sandwich man, the China Marker moth larvae. As I ponder these things, I think about how easy it is to know them, but when we get busy at the first of spring, how easy it is to put them off or forget them. Maybe making a "to do" list might help me remember?
      oh well, back to "pond"ering!
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    4. #144
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      It has finally been warm for a few days so things have been busy. I have had to cut wood for the wood stoves, and continue to buy fuel for the heaters as the temps are still getting down in the 20s at night. That is not terrible, but still too cold for the plants.
      On Monday we found an Eastern Spotted Newt in the greenhouse. he was evidently traveling because he was in the middle of the aisle. I put him in an a five gallon aquarium for safety. Yesterday I bought a box of fishing worms to feed him, as I could not find any bugs or worms around in a little bit of digging. Where are all of those bugs and worms when you need them? We have plenty in the summer! Well, the newt was definitely excited to see the worm, even though the worm was bigger than he is. For over 15 minutes I watched him fight with the worm, but I had to leave before the battle was over. I will see the result when I go out to the greenhouse later. If there is a drowned worm, the worm won as far as being eaten, but if part of the worm left, the newt won because he got a meal. Guess I need to feed smaller worms. I was going to call the newt Sallie, short for salamander, but since I think it is a male, I am calling him Sullie. See parts of the fight at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2D0...ature=youtu.be and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8XQ...ature=youtu.be
      Not great videos, but it is my first attempt at posting on youtube.

      In the same tank I put a pregnant mosquito fish. I have thousands of them here in ponds, but this one is unusually large. She is so big, from above she looks like a tadpole! It has been suggested that she may be constipated. I called Walgreen's and they do not carry Exlax for fish. Vets do not carry it either. Was told to put some Epsom salt in her water, so guess I will move her to another bowl. No use in dowsing the newt at the same time. The fish seems to be okay otherwise, but we have been watching this one for bout two months because of its size and it keeps getting bigger!
      Well, thats my thoughts for today! Keep on "pond"ering!
      Last edited by matherfish; 01-26-2018 at 11:57 AM.
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    5. #145
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      Well, two days later, and I am still enjoying the little newt. I will post a few pics of him in his current domain, but he will be moving to a different tank tomorrow, if it is not too small. After allowing him the fun of fighting with the huge worm, I gave him a smaller one. He was happy with one that was edible.
      The pregnant fish is still that. Look at the pics and see what you think.
      I fed fish in the gh house aquariums today, and in the garage. One of the garage tanks (55 gallons) had a large drop in the amount of water in the tank. I knew that it was loosing water too fast so I was concerned about a leak. It is not as big as a pond but since it is inside, so to speak, it is a concern. Checking around for a wet place around the bottom, I found on in the front left corner. I had found it! Easy to find, but I knew that to repair it I would have to drain it, and empty it. not good. But after continuing to examine the tank, I realized that the glass top had been pushed back to where part of the glass was under the hanging outside filter, so water from the filter was going onto the glass, and was flowing across the glass and down the outside of the tank. Simply pulling the glass away from the water flow was an easy fix, but I am hoping that solves the problem. I will know in a day or two after the wet spot has time to dry out, if it was caused from the glass/filter disaster. Don't you wish pond leaks could be so easily found and fixed?
      Now, go tackle your Monday with a smile! Happy "pond"ering!
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      Last edited by matherfish; 01-29-2018 at 01:17 AM.
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    6. #146
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      "Pond"ering today is concerning storing tropical water lily tubers. Nymphaea are a species of water plants that are found throughout the world. New "varieties" are being created as well as being discovered throughout the world. Although they share many common characteristics, they differ sometimes in ways that should be noted when you are growing them.
      There are three primary sub genus types of lilies, primarily. Those are the tropical (subgenus brachyceras), the night blooming tropical (subgenus lotos), and the hardy (subgenus Nymphaea). These are classified into different subgenus because they have major differences between the subgenus, Distinguishing between the groups helps in knowing how to care for them, or what to expect from them.
      Recently I read of a well know hybridizer and collector who told of his way of storing tubers. He bags them up with damp peat moss in baggies, labels them and leaves them on a piece of furniture in his office. He mentioned that he noticed a bag with three dampened tubers in it, but no peat moss. They were all healthy and had started to sprout. His living in a warmer climate than mine, the earlier sprouting would be understandable. The question then arose, do we need to store tubers as we do, in sand or peat moss or some other medium, or can they just be stored slightly dampened? I too have had tubers that were store without sand that were bagged "temporarily," expecting to come back later and adding sand, only to actually forget or overlook a bag or two. When I found them in was still during the winter when I was checking tubers, so we added sand and went on, without recording which ones they were.
      I may experiment with this idea, because I am blessed with lots of tubers, so if I lose some I will still have plenty. Some rot anyway, and others for whatever reason fail to sprout the next spring, so I am used to losing some each year. For the average ponder, however, they do not have the excess to experiment. I also will not "experiment" with tubers that I have only a few of a particular variety, especially is t is a new or hard to find variety. I would hope that you do not risk yours as well if your number of tubers is limited.
      The fact is that the tubers left without sand may have just been a coincidence. It may just be that there was something in that varieties' DNA that caused them to survive. Or maybe they were particularly healthy tubers that were able to survive. no matter, there are ways to store tubers that are tried and true that we can rely on, but if we make a mistake or do not do things properly, nature sometimes is forgiving.
      It is time for me to peek at the tubers to see how mine are doing. I will do a spot check and hopefully they will be doing well.
      Have I caused you to "pond"er your store plants or tubers?
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    7. #147
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      During this time of the year, thoughts about ponds are slow. Most of the time when I look at the "Water Gardening" section of KP I see only from 2 to 9 viewing at the time. In the spring, this number jumps to 16 or more. Obviously, we are more concerned about our ponds when they are opened and running. Well, that won't be long. But until then, I am grateful that I am averaging about 50 viewers on here per day. Thank you for your support!
      We are getting closer to the time to divide lotus tubers for those of you who have lotuses. If you have not divided them in the last few years, you definitely need to divide them. Here is how I divide mine.
      To make the tubs easier to move and lift, dump as much out of the pots as possible. I have wire topped tables which are made of rabbit wire which I like to use to work on. A solid table can also be used. Gently turn the pot upside down on the table and then remove the tub or pot from the plant. You will probably see roots, but you will also see large tubers circling the soil where they grew up against the pot.
      Next take your water hose to use to wash the soil off of the tubers. I use a spray nozzle to help get the soil washed off easier. It takes a while to get them pretty clean, but it also makes them easier to separate. Once the soil is removed you can see the tubers more clearly and how they are growing intertwining with each other. Often on the sides of the soil you will see the tuber "claws," which are the ends of tubers and have "growing tips." Slowly untangle these so as not to break the growing tips.
      The tubers will look like a bunch of linked hot dogs. Each link will have a leaf start and a growing tip on one end.
      As you untangle the tubers starting with the "claws," you can cut the tubers where they join the rest of the tuber "chain. Cut them apart, but keeping two or three growing tips or tubers together so you will need to cut two or three together. This way, if one tip gets broken or dies, you will have at least one more tip on the tubers to live and grow and produce a plant. The plants will live off of the tubers to use as food as they begin their growth. If the tips are broken or if they die, unless there is another tip, the tuber/plant will die.
      Once divided, you need to replant the tubers if you want to keep the plant, but should only need one tuber division per pot.
      Happy "pond"ering!
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      Last edited by matherfish; 02-03-2018 at 12:21 AM.
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    8. #148
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      My thoughts are on spring! We have entered into February, which seems to be closer to spring than January. But the groundhog saw it's shadow this morning! if you believe in an artificial prognostication this may satisfy you to crawl back in bed for six more weeks . But for those of us who view this as just another weatherman's forecast, which is this time blaming the groundhog, we believe that the weatherman has about a 50/50 chance of being right. Instead of housing a groundhog for a year, he could just as easily flip a coin. I will instead march right ahead and will wait for spring, whenever it may appear.
      As we anticipate spring, we anticipate the daffodils, grape hyacinths and crocus popping through the ground here in TN. They remind us that there are irises and dogwoods not far behind. Trees budding, and cherry trees and Bradley pears will be blooming before long. Ah, the spring!
      And my thoughts continue to flash onto the ponds. Since it is not long until time to divide lotuses, as I have just mentioned in the previous post, it is also near that we will be starting tropical lily tubers. Among the tropical lilies are the Aussies. These are large, beautiful lilies that have become quite popular as people have learned that they can be left to grow to their largest size, or they can be made to fit a size by trimming pads. Sometime this month, growers will be taking the tubers and rinsing them off from their winter cover, place them in bags of water and placing them in an aquarium filled with very warm water. This heat will stimulate the tuber to start sprouting early, and motivate the plant to start growing. This is done early in areas where the temps will be warm enough to set the plants outside within a short time, or for those who have greenhouses to start the growing the plants. It is exciting to see the little sprouts popping their heads out, stretching forth, and beginning to reach for the sky!
      Maybe instead of a groundhog we should use a tropical lily tuber? Oh well, keep on "pond"erring!
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    9. #149
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      Tonight's thoughts are on marginal, or bog plants. I was thinking about how that many are considered troublesome because they spread so easily, and sometimes rapidly. One of the reasons they do so is because some marginal are prolific seeders. Their seeds are often carried about by winds, insects and birds and because of their number, come up in many places in large numbers. These plants are often in need of a great deal of managed care in that the excess plants need to be pulled up wherever they sprout, and as soon as they sprout. Other plants, which primarily reproduce from their root system, are easier to control. These characteristics should be taken into consideration when adding them to your pond.
      Other thoughts today concerning the ponds are musings of the elements needed for tubers and seeds to sprout. Heat, moisture, light intensity and light duration seem to trigger the urge for the tuber or seeds to sprout. The combination of these and the amounts of each may vary from one plant to the next, but they are all needed to some extent. I think about how much we try to perfect the formulas for each variety but we have to often go back to the drawing board and try again. Maybe that is why we love the hobby so much. The treasures we find in the beauty of the plants, is made challenging by the work that goes into their birth, and maintenance.
      And the "pond"ering continues another day.
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    10. #150
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      Tropical water lilies would definitely make a better groundhog. They always seem to know. While it was not drastically warmer last week, it seems like everyone is waking up.

    11. #151
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      Sunfire Hardy Water Lily now available
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    12. #152
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      One thing I was thinking about today is identity. I have been running every day this year. This is a first because I have been ill for a few years. Some background: I qualified for the Boston Marathon when I was in high school. Being a runner became part of who I was. Then to get sick... The point I am getting at is that many athletic and career achievements last for a short time.

      Water gardening seems much more enduring. There are plenty of examples of hybrids that outlived their creators to go on and bring joy to all. I really wonder if young people in the hobby will get bored and move on. I could see myself content growing the same plants for the next 50 years. Gardening seems like as healthy of an obsession as possible. I guess the extreme would be people like the "orchid man" who looted endangered plants from the everglades.

    13. #153
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      Little_mikey, your post yesterday has given me thoughts to ponder today. You reminded me of things that myself and some friends have discussed lately. We were discussing how immense our pond hobbies had grown, and as we are growing older, we have greater difficulty n taking care of all of it. You, who are young and just getting started, will probably have many years ahead to "pond." I have considered your post, and the friends discussion, and then realized that ponding is something we can enjoy for many years, and can even enjoy it far beyond what we think we can. The truth of the matter is, we have been discussing cutting back on our hobby for many years, have not done so, and if anything have expanded it. Ponding is a hobby you can enjoy for a lifetime, and many have!
      As I think about my many years of having at least one pond, I think about 'milestones." How much different the hobby was for me at each "step." My first pond was a small 100 gallon preformed pond. I had had aquariums most of my life but decided I wanted a pond. I do not remember what triggered that desire, but I bought it and put it in our back yard, under a small tree. That is how much I knew about ponds. The internet as we know it today was not around then, so information was not as readily available. Or maybe I was even less computer savoy than I am today. Somehow, I survived.
      I also do not remember how I got involved with pond forums, exactly. I remember seeing a newspaper ad for pond plants for sale by a woman who lived about an hour from me. I remember going to her house and being amazed at her pond plants. She had several ponds and in them she had 8 to 10 varieties of hardy lilies and marginal plants. I bought a few plants from her, (she accurately pointed out that I did not have room for many lilies) and that started a friendship that continues to this day. Over the next few years I would end up getting more plants from her.
      My first major lesson in ponding? Don't let your eyes get bigger than your pond! I wanted one of all of her plants, but did not have room in my pond. As my pond grew (more about that in the next post) I was able to acquire one of each of her lilies. Patience paid off!
      Now, on to more "pond"ering!
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    14. #154
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      I continue pondering today about my early ponding experiences and lessons. After having my first pond for a few years my wife and I moved to a different house. I dug up the 100 gallon preformed pond and filled in the hole to move the pond with us to the new house.
      This time my pond would be in front of the house in a flower bed under the front window. I also brought my plants. The landscaping in the front yard would center around my little pond, landscaped with shrubs, and annuals.
      One of the new plants I acquired was horse tail reed. It had the wild pond look to it but not the cat tail look that adorned many bogs in the area. It also had a bamboo look to it but did not grow nearly as big, only getting up to about 5 feet tall. It would not block the view looking out our living room window. So, I planted it next to the pond as part of the landscaping. I was proud of the look and delighted as it flourished.
      I then learned my second major pond lesson. It’s not enough to like the look of a plant. You need to know the characteristics of a plant. Like bamboo, the horse tail reed would send out roots that would shoot up stalks everywhere. New plants would come up in the shrubs, throughout the bed, and even outside of the plant bed. I would dig them up throw them away, and still find another one or more coming up a few feet or a few inches away in a matter of days. Twenty years later I’m still digging up the traveling horse tail reed! It seems a little piece of root can develop into a new plant in a matter of weeks.
      I still like the plant, but I learned my lesson. I should have planted the plant in a container to contain the plant’s growth! I still like the plant and still have the plant, IN CONTAINERS, yet still find it growing randomly throughout the flower beds.
      Son on another winter's day waiting for spring, Happy “pond”ering!
      Last edited by matherfish; 02-08-2018 at 12:17 PM.
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    15. #155
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      Today I continue pondering my ponding! The little pond worked well for a while, but after a few years, I began wanting a bigger pond to house more plants. I also wanted to move the pond to another location, this time on the side of the yard.
      When we had moved to our new house, we had installed the preformed pond and landscaped around it. We had also landscaped the side of the house using a large patio peach tree as the focus there. With the realization that I wanted a larger pond, I also realized that I needed another location that would not be as confining. The best location would be on the other side of the patio peach tree plant bed. it would be wonderful compliment, uniting the two plant beds into one. The patio peach was quite massive for a patio peach, but was not very tall. Leaf shedding in the fall could be a problem, but the pond would be built on the area that was slightly elevated so most of the leaves would not find their way into the pond.
      To install another pond that would be the size that I wanted, I could not use a preformed pond, but would have to be a liner pond. I investigated pond liners and came to the conclusion that a 45 mil liner was the best choice. Its thickness would give it the greatest endurance. The was a thinner liner that I could buy that would have been cheaper, but I decided that the thicker liner would save me the trouble of replacing the liner as quick. Later I would learn of using billboard sign liners which would be even cheaper, but my pond was already built when I learned of that alternative.
      I enthusiastically began digging the hole to house my liner. I knew I wanted it two feet deep as it was to house lilies, and I wanted "shelves" along the sides for marginals. The day came and the pond was finished. I was the proud owner of a 2500 gallon (approximately) pond. Lots of room for more lily varieties, and by now I had learned about even more varieties. I was hooked!
      Lesson number three came quickly. I soon learned that I could not possess all varieties or types of pond plants. My newer, larger pond could not hold my pond plant appetite. In fact, no matter how much I liked them, I could not keep all of them, or take care of the vast variety even if I had them. The selection far exceeds most ponder's mental visions, so I was not alone in my scope.
      And I ponder on, but less I write too long, I will stop for today. Enjoy your pond, by "pond"ering!
      Last edited by matherfish; 02-11-2018 at 04:20 PM.
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    16. #156
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      I know exactly how hard Horse tail is to stop .
      I got rid of it sifting every tiny piece out of the dirt



    17. #157
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      Thinking about this post today, I was reminded of how much things changed on my last "new" pond. My pond was great, but I started wanting a different style of pond, and even bigger. One of the things that brought me to think about a larger pond was the patio peach had contracted a disease and was dying. I would have to tear it out and redo the landscaping, so once again, we tore out an existing pond and started building a bigger pond. This one was to be my final build!
      My other ponds had been completely in ground, but this time I wanted my pond to be partially in the ground, and partially above the ground. It would have 'seating" around half of the pond where one could sit and gaze into the pond. One could enjoy the fish, the waterfalls and the blooms of the plants. It took longer to build than originally planned, but the finished product was worth it.
      My next lesson learned? I thought about this for a while, and I believe the next lesson was that when cleaning the pond, or doing a water change, do not leave the water on to do something else when filling your pond. chlorine is detrimental to your fish, and losing all of your fish at one time due to your negligence can be very depressing.
      The new pond allows me to display various plants and looks but I have also thought about previous ponds. I kept wanting more plants but did not realize that I could enhance my pond's looks by trying new plants in them. A few new plants can re-invent your pond or bring it back to life.
      Happy 'pond'ering!
      Sunfire Hardy Water Lily now available
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    18. #158
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      I would love to be able too redo my pond with better filters and something easy too clean. I also need a better way too drain the settlement tank but would have too bust cement and that is not an option. so I will continue too have my tired old mess of a pond a while longer.
      "most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song
      still in them."
      I wish I could sing

      OK.TN.




    19. #159
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      We understand, Gander! Sometimes we just have to make do but we also need to realize that others see our ponds as being beautiful!
      Today I have thought about the new hybrid lilies, especially the IGS varieties. Many of those that are posted on here and on social media as well as other pond forums that are new are posted by the hybridizer for reaction. They want to know how people feel about the hybrid. People generally, like me, want one right away, but the truth is, they will most likely not be available for several years.
      The first thing a hybridizer has to do is select plants that he thinks have desirability. That is why pictures may be posted. The next thing he, or she, must do is to grow the lily for a few years to see that it's characteristics remain the same over time. They look for consistency in bloom size and color, as well as shape and plant size. These are only part of the traits they seek for consistence. Many plants are grown, but few chosen for perpetuity.
      Once a plant is chosen to be a "keeper," The next step is to propagate it. Among the traits needed to keep a plant is the plant's ability to reproduce itself. One of the first, if not the first, H X T that brought a lot of excitement to the hobby, and opened the door to the possibility of inter species crosses, never reproduced itself by tubering. It seems that every plant should produce tubers, but they do not. So now three or four years have gone by, maybe more. The plant been planted as a seed, as a seedling, and for observation. Over a few years the plant has been observed, and findings have been recorded in detail. Once selected, it is time for propagation.
      The plant may now have several new tubers or plants growing from the rhizomes. This is not enough to bring the plant to market. These few plants must now be planted up to encourage each new plant to grow to produce more plants. Then those plants would be planted for the same purpose. Plants cannot be mass produced as in a factory so the process of duplication is time consuming. To get the number of plants desired may be three or four more years, or more. So from a seed to the possibility of a newly marketable lily may be 6 years or longer. With that understanding, we can appreciate the value of the new lily and the work involved.
      So for today, "pond"er these things.
      Sunfire Hardy Water Lily now available
      [/B]
      See my Pro Seller store on Koiphen[B]

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    20. #160
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      70* today and sunny, and that is what I thought about all day long! I was able to get out and get a lot done in many ways. And "pond"ering what all I could do today, and tomorrow, when we again will be warm (78*) and sunny!
      Last fall I divided my Tangerine Pink hardy lily that is a Mike Giles hybrid. I had more divisions than I had room for at the time so I put some of the bigger ones into a pot with holes in the bottom, and put the pot in a small pond in the greenhouse. I had left them floating that way until today, when I decided it was time to pot them up. I had left them floating longer than I had planned so I was not sure what I would find. only two had died, but I potted up six plants with green sprouts starting! I am not saying that this is a good way to keep your hardy lilies over the winter, but it is an alternative if you do not have time or room to plant extra divisions at the end of summer. Just store your rhizomes in bucket of pond water in a place where they can get some sunlight.
      Another plant I planted up today was a lotus. it was a lotus that had come up last spring in a pot of soil that either had a seed in it or a small piece of a lotus. It was not a plant that I had planted, so there was no label. it grew throughout the pond this summer, and had even jumped out of the shallow pot it had shown up in. Since most of the plant was not in soil, it was easy to divide the plant and pot it up. The results are 10 lotuses that will sprout up this spring! The plants were potted in small 12" shallow pots so that they can easily be transferred to a bigger pot by customers when purchased in a few months! A pot of the same lotus that I had potted up a month ago and placed in a shallow pond in the greenhouse, like these, has already started putting up shoots.
      Speaking of lotuses, I also took the bloom heads that we had saved from last year's plants and threw out the heads that had no mature seeds. I then went through the rest of the heads and collected all seed that appeared to be healthy, fat and viable. It took a while, but I think I ended up with about 200 or more seeds! For those of you who do not grow lotuses, not every seed is viable because they do not always mature, or are not always fertilized. As I looked at the collection of seeds, I could not help but imagine what the potential hybrid plants could look like! Ahh, the pondering!
      Tomorrow will be another nice day, so I am "pond"ering what I might get done then! If your weather is nice also, enjoy playing in the pond!
      Last edited by matherfish; 02-20-2018 at 12:27 AM.
      Sunfire Hardy Water Lily now available
      [/B]
      See my Pro Seller store on Koiphen[B]

      TN Department of Agriculture Inspected and Certified
      for over 15 years!





      “People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care”
      ― Zig Ziglar

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