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    Thread: Need ideas, fish not doing well HELP

    1. #1
      MovingTarget is offline Senior Member
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      Need ideas, fish not doing well HELP

      Hi, my pond was doing great. All tests good and water very clear.

      I got a pile of amended dirt delivered for sod. Wind kicked a lot into the pond which made it dirty.

      A couple of days later I vacuumed the stream (has rocks but are cemented in) and part of the pond (no rocks, just liner). I had purchased a cheap generic gallon of water conditioner (blue in color says comparable to API), I used that when filling back up. I also put in a water cleaner that removes suspended particles that I had not used before, Biocuda Eco-Solve9. This was about 5-6 in the evening.

      The pond has 2 bottom drains that have aeration that kicks on from 8pm to 7am.

      The next morning the fish were acting scared, would not eat. I thought maybe an animal came during the night and scared them. Later that day, probably about 5pm, I put some fish from quarantine into the pond then noticed one fish (not from quarantine) was on the top on it's side. I netted it and put in quarantine, he struggled but was still alive, another (same type of fish interestingly) was swimming on his side, not as bad as the first. Netted put in QT. The second fish almost immediately seemed better in QT. Then another one was jumping, netted, this was was bleeding a bit, probably hit a rock on the top edge of the pond.

      Obviously something's wrong with the water.

      I did a about a 30% water change, went to Petsmart and bought my normal API water conditioner. This morning all fish in the pond still acting scared, won't eat. Another one was slow and not doing well so I netted just now and put in QT. All others seem okay but acting scared. The ones from yesterday I could net are all doing much better and swimming fine in QT.

      I re-read the Biocuda directions, says to use aeration, which I didn't do but did happen over night, but it was not going during the day. I did turn on the bubbles after the water change and left going all day today.

      I did test the water yesterday morning before it was obvious there was a water problem, only thing noticeable to me is my GH has been 125 or higher every other time I've tested.

      PH 8.3
      KH 125.3
      GH 71.6
      Ammonia 0.25
      Nitrite 0
      Phosphate 0

      Just tested today:

      PH 7.7
      KH 125.3
      GH 89.5
      Ammonia 0.25
      Nitrite 0
      Phosphate 0

      Man I hope I didn't just kill all my fish. Super upset and appreciate any thoughts or help. I'm out of ideas.

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    2. #2
      cindy's Avatar
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      The pond has 2 bottom drains that have aeration that kicks on from 8pm to 7am.? Is that your only aeration? Let it on and get an air pump and an air stone.

      I'd keep doing partial water changes with a good binder and get plenty of air in there. I'll read up on Biocuda Eco-Solve9.

    3. #3
      cindy's Avatar
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      About this item
      Disclaimer: While we aim to provide accurate product information, it is provided by manufacturers, suppliers and others, and has not been verified by us. See our disclaimer.
      We like that Atlantic Water Garden's Line of Biocuda products are environmentally friendly. Eco-Solve9 is a complete pond cleaner that works fast to clean your fountains, ponds and streams. It has double the active product that other brands have. This makes it so you use less to clean more water.

      Cleans organic debris that is attached to your rocks and pond sides.
      Removes organic debris that is suspened in your water.
      Twice as concentrated.

      Eco-Solv9 is the fastest and most efficient water clarifier on the market today. Eco-Solv9 is designed to clear pond water in all sizes of ponds, fountains, bubblers and streams. EcoSolv9 contains a 9% solution of active product that is double that of competing brands, which allows you to use less per application. In fact, one 16 oz. bottle of Eco-Solv9 treats 9,600 gallons. So no matter what you clarity problem is, Eco-Solv9 can help you FIX it.- SKU: ATLWG156
      Warnings:
      California Proposition 65 Warning: WARNING: This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer andbirth defects or other reproductive harm.
      Get air in there, do water changes with a good chloramine binder and get that stuff out.

    4. #4
      kntry's Avatar
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      Most of that stuff depletes oxygen in the water. Your air should run 24/7.
      Sandy
      CKK, KHA

    5. #5
      MovingTarget is offline Senior Member
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      There is a waterfall that runs all the time too.

    6. #6
      MovingTarget is offline Senior Member
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      How long could that biocuda stay in there?

    7. #7
      MovingTarget is offline Senior Member
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      Btw the bottom drains are koi toilets and when going they boil the pond with tons of air. Pond is about 9000 gallons.

    8. #8
      cindy's Avatar
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      I don't see the ingredients so no idea. Does it say on the bottle or have an emergency number?

      I have a waterfall too but its in the 90's here so I keep an airstone boiling air.

    9. #9
      cindy's Avatar
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      Looking for information and found reviews: Top customer reviews

      1.0 out of 5 starsDO NOT USE!
      ByShawn A Keslingon June 2, 2017
      Size: 1-Gallon|Verified Purchase
      I am a big fan of the Biocuda Beneficial Bacteria but koi and goldfish immediately react poorly to any amount ( 1-2oz.) of this product in my pond. I am a pond enthusiast. My one is 4000 gallons with three split water falls, aeriation, plants, and skimming mechanical and biological filters at 6000 gallons an hour pump. My pond is my passion and I ask you please do not use this product. As a previous reviewer stated it is mislabeled. IT IS HAZARDOUS TO HUMANS AND DOMESTIC ANIMALS. And yes it did kill two of my fish. Yes all of my water parameters were within limits. One star only because it won't let me leave my review without it.

    10. #10
      MovingTarget is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by cindy View Post
      Looking for information and found reviews: Top customer reviews

      1.0 out of 5 starsDO NOT USE!
      ByShawn A Keslingon June 2, 2017
      Size: 1-Gallon|Verified Purchase
      I am a big fan of the Biocuda Beneficial Bacteria but koi and goldfish immediately react poorly to any amount ( 1-2oz.) of this product in my pond. I am a pond enthusiast. My one is 4000 gallons with three split water falls, aeriation, plants, and skimming mechanical and biological filters at 6000 gallons an hour pump. My pond is my passion and I ask you please do not use this product. As a previous reviewer stated it is mislabeled. IT IS HAZARDOUS TO HUMANS AND DOMESTIC ANIMALS. And yes it did kill two of my fish. Yes all of my water parameters were within limits. One star only because it won't let me leave my review without it.

      Well that sucks, I guess I'm joining the ranks of those who say not to use this product, although I should have had the aeration on as soon as it went into the pond. I've pulled two more sluggish fish out, they have all recovered in the QT so I haven't lost any fish "yet" knock on wood.

      They still aren't eating and are acting scared of me this morning still. I'm wondering how much longer this will go on, today is day three.

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    11. #11
      cindy's Avatar
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      Keep the air going and keep an eye on your water with test kits to make sure you don't miss any changes in ph/kh or ammonia.

      Sorry, most of us learned the hard way that additives cause problems.

    12. #12
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      I feel that feedback was another person who really doesn't truly know their pond volume accurately and wants to blame a product for not working like claimed. I also, on the other hand don't recommend any of these "bugs in a bottle" that are off the shelf products as they really aren't the correct bacteria that you'd find in your biofilter. They're mostly sludge eating varieties that are used in septic tanks/water treatment plants to reduce/remove sludge.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net




      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    13. #13
      MovingTarget is offline Senior Member
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      So had to pull one more into QT yesterday but no one today. I still haven't lost any fish but they are still not eating and acting scared this morning. All fish in QT seem to be acting fine.

      So it's most likely that water clarifier that caused the issue, it sucked the oxygen out of the water.

      Will the fish fully recover? Will they have some sort of brain damage? I know that might be a goofy question but my wife asked me and I honestly don't know. I'm hoping they are getting back to normal by Sunday, which will be a week, the bottle said you can/should reapply after a week, which I won't be doing.

    14. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by MovingTarget View Post
      There is a waterfall that runs all the time too.
      I don't know why this was missed but I hope you DO NOT believe that a water fall provides sufficient aeration for a pond. It does not.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    15. #15
      MovingTarget is offline Senior Member
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      Never mind, they're starting to eat now and acting more normal!!! I think we're back on the path to happy fish. Thanks for all the help!

    16. #16
      MovingTarget is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      I don't know why this was missed but I hope you DO NOT believe that a water fall provides sufficient aeration for a pond. It does not.
      Note I used the word "too" meaning it also provides aeration in addition to the two koi toilet BDs.

    17. #17
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MovingTarget View Post
      Note I used the word "too" meaning it also provides aeration in addition to the two koi toilet BDs.
      Yes, I saw that, and I was just trying to be nice. Koi will suffocate under a waterfall if the water loses it's O2 content. You need to understand that counting on your water fall for anything but pretty sounds is not wise.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

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      I always thought the point of a waterfall in a koi pond was to force oxygen-laden upper layers of water to mix with the lower layer which presumably have less.

      The longer I'm in this hobby the more I think many of the rules presented as gospel are just advisories, trends, or even myths. Remember when cycling the pond volume once every two hours was The Thing to Do? Now we aren't one of the cool kids unless we run at least 10,000 gph and a shower. Okay.
      Author of Midlana, Build this High Performance Mid-engine Sports Car. http://midlana.com/stuff/book

    19. #19
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
      I always thought the point of a waterfall in a koi pond was to force oxygen-laden upper layers of water to mix with the lower layer which presumably have less.

      The longer I'm in this hobby the more I think many of the rules presented as gospel are just advisories, trends, or even myths. Remember when cycling the pond volume once every two hours was The Thing to Do? Now we aren't one of the cool kids unless we run at least 10,000 gph and a shower. Okay.
      No, water is oxygenated with an exchange of gases and an airstone, with very fine bubbles, with lift the water from the bottom to the surface and a gas exchange will occur. Usually one thing for another in very basic terms.

      If the water, at the bottom of the pond, is cooler then it will hold more oxygen that the water at the surface and vice versa.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    20. #20
      cindy's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MovingTarget View Post
      Never mind, they're starting to eat now and acting more normal!!! I think we're back on the path to happy fish. Thanks for all the help!
      Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
      I always thought the point of a waterfall in a koi pond was to force oxygen-laden upper layers of water to mix with the lower layer which presumably have less.

      The longer I'm in this hobby the more I think many of the rules presented as gospel are just advisories, trends, or even myths. Remember when cycling the pond volume once every two hours was The Thing to Do? Now we aren't one of the cool kids unless we run at least 10,000 gph and a shower. Okay.
      That's ok I'm not cool either. Glad the fish are better

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