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    Thread: Strange Koi Behaviour - help

    1. #1
      KoiRun's Avatar
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      Strange Koi Behaviour - help

      Last night I noticed all my koi hanging out by the current on the opposite end of the pond. They looked relaxed swimming around together. This was a sudden change. The only thing I can think of was that I fed them bits of watermelon earlier in the day. Also I think there is a storm coming. Maybe that I will expect spawning overnight - not really experience with what spawning behaviour is like. This morning they are still doing it (hanging out) in the same spot. No spawning as far as I can tell as there is no smell or no foam. They have decreased appetite but they will eat if thrown pellets to where they are, nonetheless decreased appetite. The one goldfish have the most appetite and would break out of the school to fetch pellets thrown a little further. 0-0-0 reading on API test, ph 8.2 water temp 68F this morning. They would sometimes hang out under the floating planters. Worried; thanks in advanced.
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      Here's a video:

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      Pull one and do a scrape and a scope to see if there are any parasites on their gills or body.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

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      Thanks Russ, I might just do that later on. But I've not seen any flashing or clamping and the behaviour was sudden. They are not breathing fast. They normally forage for food or hang around their feeding spot waiting for me. Not today. Anyways I'm in the middle of doing a 200G water change; another tonight. If this does not work maybe I'll but a bag of carbon in the skimmer. I did check for hydrogen sulphide perhaps I released some yesterday while I was scrubbing part of the bottom of my pond. Negative. I was scrubbing for old dark green algae that was making the bottom look ugly (I did not do a good job).

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      If your pond floor is basically void of rock and mulm. what makes you think you might have hydrogen sulfide gasses? And, I would not be cleaning off dark green algae as long as it's not string algae but, carpet algae. this houses beneficial bacteria and is actually a small part of the bio system within the pond.

      Sometimes fish respond to changes in barometric pressures, especially when a low pressure front is coming in. they will slow down as the feel the added weight/pressure on their bodies from the "heavier" water. As long as there's no flashing or other add behavior like suddenly streaking off to other pond areas, or shaking their heads violently, I'd take a "wait and see" approach until the low front moves through.
      Mike

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    6. #6
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      Stressed or scared fish, school. Maybe you working on the algae has spooked them.

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      Mike that was what I was thinking too. There is heavy feel in the air, humid and muggy and just strange. Maybe they are about to spawn. Cindy, how long does spook behaviour last? This is funny and at the same time not, but the koi are venturing only up to the middle of the pond and turning back. Something they are smelling? As if the other side is haunted (that is the side I was working on yesterday). Oh and one other thing I did yesterday was up my KH from 6 drops to 7. Mike I hate to admit this but when I built my pond I sank one of those 300G bone-shaped preformed pond nice and tight 5 feet at the bottom of the pond on top of the liner. It did make a nice neat floor, however I will worry hydrogen gas will accumulate between it and the liner. When I do press on it with a vac, there is no give and there are no mulm or gas bubbles coming out. Rock and bricks align the top perimeter of the preform which weighs it down and keep the gap 'sealed.' I will forget about and 2nd water change tonight and the carbon and continue to watch. Thanks.

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      I have no further comment at this time.
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      Woke up this morning and the koi are still swimming together. They remind of a school of river carp or salmon trying hold position while swimming up stream. I'm going to have to try something when I get home later this afternoon or else they Im afraid they might get tired.
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      Yesterday evening before leaving home I did feed them. I hand fed and they finished all the food. They would not come and feed at their usual spot so I came to them. On second thought maybe I should not have done that as it will only encourage them to stay where they are. Yesterday I did check my video camera recorder and I can confirm that the behaviour only happened the day before yesterday after I vacuumed that part of the bottom; and it was right after that. Also. I have not seen them swim at the bottom of the pond even in their 'comfort half' of the pond ever since. This is going to sound dumb but one cautious koi, my orange ogon, I've seen swim half way mid-water with her head down and tail up, seem to stare at bottom for several seconds, then head back up to her friends. Its as if she's scouting out the 'haunted side' and telling her friends to stay where they are. Anybody please help! I only have a couple of hours today to do any work on the pond and fish. I guess I'm lucky that they were all nice and robust before this stress has come up.

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      I came home found relief that the koi are taking refuge from the sun under the floating planters occasionally. They are not dumb after all - but wait. I tried to shoo them away to the other side of the pond by stepping into the pond, but my piggy koi just end up sucking my toes. I did throw pellets beyond the floating planters and they took it somewhat but not beyond the half way and not even close; some pellets were left floating. Here's my theory and it's going to sound ridiculous. After I vacuumed that part of the bottom of the pond by scrubbing it clean right down to the plastic, it left a 'silhouette' and I don't know what shape they took this as but a least one of the koi is thinking this is some kind of predator.
      Last edited by KoiRun; 06-30-2017 at 04:13 PM.
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      I scrubbed the rest of the pond floor. What have I got to loose?
      Koi would not go to the deep end even if coaxed.
      Sent more aerator to the the bottom.
      Put big bags of charcoal in skimmer and in the outlet.
      Koi are more stressed. No obvious streaking but their stomach is bad. They are pooping fleshy solid mucusy stuff that are bloody (pink).
      Any other ideas?

      Sidney.

    13. #13
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      I don't think it has to do so much with the creating a shadow on the pond floor as it did actually cleaning it that well. The one fish facing face down and then face up is a kind of red flag of parasitic issues, and the fact that they are all hanging out together facing the same direction is also kinda weird but synchronous in that they are all feeling somewhat stressed. Then you talk about putting charcoal in the system - why? Now the fish are showing even more signs of stress. That could attributable to a few things but they all seem to have been done around the same time. Overcleaning, getting into pond (they're not accustomed to this) and adding charcoal to the system. Now, their stomachs are irritated. Did you recently change the food? How old is the food you're feeding? One thing that doesn't fit with stressful behavior. You say that when you got into the pond, the fish were nibbling at your toes. That's a normal behavior that belies being stressed by your invasion of their surroundings. I don't know what to think here.

      Scrubbing off the entire pond floor was not really a smart idea unless there was a high degree of mulm down there.
      Mike

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    14. #14
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      I wonder if the watermelon fed earlier could have something to do with the difference in stools?

      They do seemed stressed to me. I know all it takes is one dominant fish of mine to act differently and koi seemed to be just like
      Lemmings and all will become cautious of everything.
      --Steve



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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      I don't think it has to do so much with the creating a shadow on the pond floor as it did actually cleaning it that well. The one fish facing face down and then face up is a kind of red flag of parasitic issues, and the fact that they are all hanging out together facing the same direction is also kinda weird but synchronous in that they are all feeling somewhat stressed. Then you talk about putting charcoal in the system - why? Now the fish are showing even more signs of stress. That could attributable to a few things but they all seem to have been done around the same time. Overcleaning, getting into pond (they're not accustomed to this) and adding charcoal to the system. Now, their stomachs are irritated. Did you recently change the food? How old is the food you're feeding? One thing that doesn't fit with stressful behavior. You say that when you got into the pond, the fish were nibbling at your toes. That's a normal behavior that belies being stressed by your invasion of their surroundings. I don't know what to think here.

      Scrubbing off the entire pond floor was not really a smart idea unless there was a high degree of mulm down there.
      I have not changed food. Before this they had great appetite. I vacuumed the rest of the floor today to test my theory. Sort of trying to get rid of that silhouette. After doing this, they won't even go under the floating planters. I got in the pond again and tried to coaxed them into the deep end. I can basically pick them up right there and then and If I wanted to, throw them to the other side. It's like pushing a child into the pool so that they will learn to swim, they would rather grab you by the legs to stay out of the pool. I can confirm this is a spook-type behavior that Cindy alluded to. Then I spoke to a good friend who talked about putting a net in the pond so that the koi get used to it being in the pond. He gave up after a week and pulled the net out as the koi remained stressed. Then this rang a bell in my head. After vacuuming (scrubbing) the pond floor, the floor design that was left was a black checker board design, like a netting. The floor of the preform is designed that way. And recently, about three weeks ago, I was practicing netting my koi in anticipation of treating a koi. Then after practicing, I actually had to treat my kohaku for bacterial issues related to ph swings which were all resolved. This netting experience most likely left a memory bank in their little heads. Basically I put the charcoal in the pond because I don't know what else to do. It's not going to harm anything. It's a crap-shoot but maybe it will absorb any crazy stress hormones or pheromones they are passing around. I can take it out. The food is less than a year old. Right now I don't think they are stressed enough so that parasites or bacteria get the upper hand... but soon?

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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      I wonder if the watermelon fed earlier could have something to do with the difference in stools?

      They do seemed stressed to me. I know all it takes is one dominant fish of mine to act differently and koi seemed to be just like
      Lemmings and all will become cautious of everything.
      That's a great and reassuring thought about the watermelon and about the dominant fish. As with humans I think food 'pass right through' them undigested when they are not right and just not themselves. As with the orange ogon, she is always cautionary, and I blame her (as well as myself) for all this trouble. I said from the start that if any one would be a survivor in this herd, she will be the last one standing. It seems like the consensus is to leave them alone right now, but one last things I need to do in the morning is to provide them cover from the sunlight. Not only from the sunlight, but they would be easy picking for a heron if one decides land pasts barriers I have in place. I would also change the direction of the outlet flow so they don't have to fight the currents. Thank you very much.

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      I think you have an issue going on within the pond but it really doesn't have anything to do with shadows or checkerboard patterns. I watched the video and see the fish swimming against a light current. I don't really see any "odd" behavior other that what you're talking about with regards to exhibiting being "spooked" but if that was really the case, they'd be swimming frantically all over the pond to escape your intrusion. Maybe your just making more out of this than is really there?!?
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      I bought more floating planters where they can take shelter. Now my pond looks and feels like a ghost town.

    19. #19
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      Yesterday I suffered a major set back. I found my orange koi cautiously swimming (scouting) along the edge towards the other side of the pond, swimming while looking down towards the deep end. She ended up close to the other side. Unfortunately my wife got all excited and tried to greet her pond side before I get a chance to stop her or say anything. The koi freaked torpedoed along our side edge past us and encountered my skimmer which she tried to hurdle but landed on top of it injuring part of her belly (minor). Now it's even going to take much longer time for them to come out. She is clearly the leader of the pack when it comes to alarms. It is also clear that to them (or her) there is something haunted in the pond depths. My wife noticed during this time that she had bugged-out eyes and I agreed with her. Today her eyes looked normal. I slowed the current right down and they are not longer swimmer in pack but randomly under the floating planters. Swimming in a pack was them fighting the currents. My goldfish will occasional swim over the cliff to nibble on some algae which is a good sign.

      I've mentioned this story my brother-in-law who is an anaesthetist. He thought this was funny and that fish are strange. He suggested I find a koi psychotherapist. LOL.
      Last edited by KoiRun; 07-02-2017 at 11:56 AM.
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      So, this fish spooked and fled. The others never did anything like this even when you got into the pond. How deep is the pond? You mention the "deep end" so how deep is the shallow end? Looking at the video while they're swimming against the current, it appears to be less than 2' deep!?!?
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