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    Thread: Streamflow 10,000 gallon

    1. #1
      Koiguync is offline Member
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      Streamflow 10,000 gallon

      Well. I have read all the posts on here about people talking about doing it. Havent seen one running yet though. Got a helluva deal on a damaged now repaired fiber glass pool liner. Its 14ft x33ft long and 3 to 6ft deep. Im running all 3" piping for the big aquabead 9.3 and a low rpm 1hp artesian. My plan will be to run a solid 10,000 gallons per hour threw the stream. My question is...will the koi all point the same direction constantly? How will they act with the heavy water flow? And will the point under the current bE a safe enough place for them to rest? Last thing i want is all the fish sucked to the bottom and mid drains. Thanks for the input.

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      tbullard is offline Senior Member
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      I don't think the water will be moving nearly as strong as you are thinking.

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      Quote Originally Posted by tbullard View Post
      I don't think the water will be moving nearly as strong as you are thinking.
      Agree...
      10k gph sounds like a lot but I think you'll be surprised at how uneventful it is, especially in a 10k pond.
      My pond is only about 4000 gallons and I have an Advantage ES10500 and a Perf Pro flowing another 4000 gph. About 60% returns via 4 returns underwater returns
      on the floor of the pond and the other 40% returns via the waterfall. The fish play in the current at the floor of the pond when they want, but other than
      that you'd never know there was any flow at all in the pond. They normally swim randomly in the water as if there were no pumps at all.
      --Steve



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      Ok great! Thanks

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      Quote Originally Posted by tbullard View Post
      I don't think the water will be moving nearly as strong as you are thinking.
      This. From my math, your pond is 15592 gallons. Assuming a *real* 10,000 gph flow (not just the pump rating) means that 10,000/15592 gallons are moved in one hr. Said another way, in one hour, a particle floating in the water will have moved roughly 2/3 the length of the pool, or about 20 feet. Said yet another way, the water will only move about 4" a minute*.

      *This is an average. At the shallow end it'll be moving about 7" a minute and about 2.5" minute at the deep end.
      Last edited by kimini; 06-28-2017 at 03:15 PM.
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      No math involved here, my brain is fried from work.

      I have a 9k gallon linear flow pond. I am running a total of 3 ES 8500 pumps. I wish I had a more current. The only time you notice it is if the fish are at the business end of the pond, they seem to like playing in the current. At the opposite end it's pretty calm.

      I hope that helped.
      Jerry

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    7. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by Koiguync View Post
      Well. I have read all the posts on here about people talking about doing it. Havent seen one running yet though. Got a helluva deal on a damaged now repaired fiber glass pool liner. Its 14ft x33ft long and 3 to 6ft deep. Im running all 3" piping for the big aquabead 9.3 and a low rpm 1hp artesian. My plan will be to run a solid 10,000 gallons per hour threw the stream. My question is...will the koi all point the same direction constantly? How will they act with the heavy water flow? And will the point under the current bE a safe enough place for them to rest? Last thing i want is all the fish sucked to the bottom and mid drains. Thanks for the input.
      This sentence caught my immediate attention. Are you thinking of running this amount over an actual streambed?

      Your pool really has the wrong "shape" for a linear flow/streamflow pond of the type where all the water enters at one end and pushes the current to the other. You have a somewhat "kidney" shape to your pool. You would be much better off running at least two 4" bottom drains but three would be much better. The problem on yours is the slope of the bottom of the pool and rounded end shape to get the proper flow. Also, at 33' long, you don't have enough flow current to reach the other end if all the drains are in the deep end. In your case, the best solution would be to use counter current flows around two or three drains to utilize the existing shape of the bowls at each end.
      Mike

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    8. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sp00ks View Post
      No math involved here, my brain is fried from work.

      I have a 9k gallon linear flow pond. I am running a total of 3 ES 8500 pumps. I wish I had a more current. The only time you notice it is if the fish are at the business end of the pond, they seem to like playing in the current. At the opposite end it's pretty calm.

      I hope that helped.
      I have a ~4000G pond, somewhat oval shape. My pump output is ~4000GPH. I only use about 10% of the water (~400 gph) for the underwater return and the rest go to the bog and waterstream/waterfall. It creates a very good circular current. What I did was I used 3/4 inch flexible tube, and at the exit, I used the ¾ to ½ inches bard to create a water jet, and place it at around 30 degree angle with the wall (I did not build the pond with the underwater return, so, I just added an external line. It does not look so nice, but it’s small so, it does not too bad). So, if you really want to create a strong current, you should create a water jet for the underwater return pipe. My bottom drain is undersize, only 2”, this circular current really helps to get the solid to the bottom drain.

      hp

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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      This sentence caught my immediate attention. Are you thinking of running this amount over an actual streambed?

      Your pool really has the wrong "shape" for a linear flow/streamflow pond of the type where all the water enters at one end and pushes the current to the other. You have a somewhat "kidney" shape to your pool. You would be much better off running at least two 4" bottom drains but three would be much better. The problem on yours is the slope of the bottom of the pool and rounded end shape to get the proper flow. Also, at 33' long, you don't have enough flow current to reach the other end if all the drains are in the deep end. In your case, the best solution would be to use counter current flows around two or three drains to utilize the existing shape of the bowls at each end.
      Pond is shaped like this
      Attached Images Attached Images  

    10. #10
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      Yes, I remember for another thread where you posted this pic before. I still stand on my earlier post. This shape is not ideal for a linear/streamflow pond. But, again, do you really know what we're talking about when we say "streamflow"? Or are you thinking all the water flows over a stream first and then into the pond?
      Mike

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    11. #11
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      The pond has a 3 foot elevation change end to end and is shaped like a long rectangle with rounded corners. With this much elevation change a linear flow (river/stream flow) from the shallow end to bottom drains and skimmer in the deep end is workable. Selectively placing returns will keep the corners flushed out.
      Last edited by BWG; 06-29-2017 at 08:02 AM.

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      No one's saying it won't work, his "problem" is making it appear to be a stream. Let's say a "stream" is seeing the water moving at a modest one foot a second. To make that happen in this large pool would require an enormous amount of power and/or cost to move 15,000 gallons every 30 seconds, which is 1.8 million gallons an hour. Such flow could be mimicked by having some really large jets move just the upper level, but to move the entire volume is really ambitious.
      Last edited by kimini; 06-29-2017 at 09:18 AM.
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      It's nothing more than a term describing linear flow like in a river or stream. It is not a defination of flow rates. For an ornamental pond it is not duplicating flow rates of a river or stream. That is why it is better to call it linear flow. Some industrial in ground tanks are also designed with linear flow.

      Someone already stated that at normal pumping rates no effect or danger to fish and no noticeable current.
      Last edited by BWG; 06-29-2017 at 09:51 AM.

    14. #14
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      I have to agree with Mike. The shape of this pond would likely do better with a circular flow design. Especially at 33' in length in addition to the shape. The power your going to have to have to push waste to the other end of the pond....

      If it were mine, I would not do a traditional linear flow.

      Do some jets at the top or a 9" aeration disc at the shallow end to move the top of the water to the other end for the desired effect. My opinion.
      Jerry

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    15. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
      This. From my math, your pond is 15592 gallons. Assuming a *real* 10,000 gph flow (not just the pump rating) means that 10,000/15592 gallons are moved in one hr. Said another way, in one hour, a particle floating in the water will have moved roughly 2/3 the length of the pool, or about 20 feet. Said yet another way, the water will only move about 4" a minute*.

      *This is an average. At the shallow end it'll be moving about 7" a minute and about 2.5" minute at the deep end.

      WOW MY HEAD HURTS!! I have trouble just walking!! I'm glad we have people like you on Koiphen!!
      Hope your pond is doing well!
      V

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      Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
      It's nothing more than a term describing linear flow like in a river or stream. It is not a defination of flow rates. For an ornamental pond it is not duplicating flow rates of a river or stream...
      Well hopefully the OP will clarify because I read it as him being concerned about the current being too strong and too fast:

      Quote Originally Posted by Koiguync View Post
      ...My question is...will the koi all point the same direction constantly? How will they act with the heavy water flow? And will the point under the current bE a safe enough place for them to rest?...
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    17. #17
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      Do these shells come with openings or reinforced areas for skimmers and bottom drains already in them?

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      Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
      Well hopefully the OP will clarify because I read it as him being concerned about the current being too strong and too fast:
      Yup i was worried the fish would get tired of swimming and get sucked down to the drain. All good.

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      Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
      Do these shells come with openings or reinforced areas for skimmers and bottom drains already in them?
      No. We are running retro bottom drains just so we dont have to cut threw the fiberglass and cause any points of leaks. There will be some bulk heads about 2 foot down to keep the pipe from being visible. The skimmers i am running 1 aqua skimmer (bigger no niche) in each corner of the pond. The way those shelfs are set up i can just run a bulk head right under neath it and the skimmer sits right on top of it. Should be pretty simple really. The savio really scared me after someone postef pictures of the fish stuck inside of it. Ive always liked and had good luck with the no niche.

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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      This sentence caught my immediate attention. Are you thinking of running this amount over an actual streambed?

      Your pool really has the wrong "shape" for a linear flow/streamflow pond of the type where all the water enters at one end and pushes the current to the other. You have a somewhat "kidney" shape to your pool. You would be much better off running at least two 4" bottom drains but three would be much better. The problem on yours is the slope of the bottom of the pool and rounded end shape to get the proper flow. Also, at 33' long, you don't have enough flow current to reach the other end if all the drains are in the deep end. In your case, the best solution would be to use counter current flows around two or three drains to utilize the existing shape of the bowls at each end.
      There is no stream. Linear is a better word for it. How would you set up the drains and pond returns? Im open to ideas.

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