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    Thread: Skimmer is not sucking with pump on!

    1. #41
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Could you explain to the forum what neutral to positive buoyancy is please.

      Garfield.
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    2. #42
      tbullard is online now Senior Member
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      Positive buoyancy would be items that float on top of the water and Neutral would be items that are suspended in the water.

    3. #43
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      Allow a slight slope on your bottom drains toward your settlement tank to allow gravity to constantly roll the dirt to the 90 degree elbow below the stand pipe.
      I'm not sure how you'd accomplish this without your settling tank being deeper than your BD's, which I think is pretty
      rare unless your pond is pretty shallow.

      I think stand pipe use is pretty rare nowadays, at least in the States. Good valves makes it too easy and worth the
      cost imo.
      --Steve
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    4. #44
      RickF's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      I'm not sure how you'd accomplish this without your settling tank being deeper than your BD's, which I think is pretty
      rare unless your pond is pretty shallow.

      I think stand pipe use is pretty rare nowadays, at least in the States. Good valves makes it too easy and worth the
      cost imo.
      I agree. My pond is 6 feet deep, but my sump is only 4 feet deep. The surface of the sump and the surface of the pond must be at the same level, so it is impossible not to have the drain pipes sloping upwards.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    5. #45
      kimini is offline Senior Member
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      I think the benefit of the stand-pipe cleanout can be handled by having that same fitting right at the inlet to the RDF or settling tanks with a plug on it. Pretty sure I saw that as a recommended setup where a cleaning brush and/or hose can then be pushed the full length of the BD pipes.

    6. #46
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by RickF View Post
      I agree. My pond is 6 feet deep, but my sump is only 4 feet deep. The surface of the sump and the surface of the pond must be at the same level, so it is impossible not to have the drain pipes sloping upwards.
      Sorry, I did not make things very clear regarding the BD horizontal pipe gradient.

      Your pond is 6 feet deep .

      Your settlement tank is 4 feet deep

      The bottom drain pipes would normally run horizontal. Why. Because most pictures of the bottom pipe installations on koi ponds installations always look like they are

      horizontal.

      Instead of horizontal

      You change the horizontal pipe fall to go DOWN, so you can give your plumbing a 1 in 40 down gradient, down to the ELBOW WAY below the settlement tank before it risers into the

      bottom of the settlement tank, to be finished with a plain 4'' socket.

      If you look at the plumbing on the outside of a building, the sewer pipes run down to the main vertical waste pipe.This allows the waste to be taken away by the flush

      water and gravity.

      Bottom drain pipe, same thing, gravity and water velocity carry dirt to lowest point before it is drawn up into the settlement tank.

      This is were the long stand pipes come in.

      Pump the water out of the settlement tank. It is now empty. Lift the one stand pipe and the water rushes in carrying the heavy sand and dirt to be flushed away by opening the

      flush valve.

      Garfield.
      Last edited by coolwon; 02-20-2017 at 07:36 AM.
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    7. #47
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by RickF View Post
      I agree. My pond is 6 feet deep, but my sump is only 4 feet deep. The surface of the sump and the surface of the pond must be at the same level, so it is impossible not to have the drain pipes sloping upwards.
      Hi RickF

      How would you rate your settlement tank arrangement?

      Your system must be VERY OLD. lol

      Garfield.
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    8. #48
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by MCAsan View Post
      No settlement chamber works on neutral to positive buoyancy as Waddy found out years ago even with those huge vortexes he had. Then he put in a barrier, The Answer with 100 micron screens, and found out just how much mulm was going through a settlement chamber and landing on the matting cartridges.

      The best mechanical stage filter is likely a rotary drum filter that captures and removes in the 50micron range. Arguably the second best are sieves which are in the 200-300micron range. After that likely static beds or walls of brushes. But the brushes can be a PITA to clean.
      SMOKE & MIRRORS

      It's a settlement chamber.

      It ties up the BD return lines to keep them more or less equal in length and catches the surface floaters. The heavy stuff.

      The finer stuff does get through TO the sieves, strainers, brushes, sand filters,rotary drum filter, even a paper filter if that floats your boat.

      As the owner builder is piping up now he is going directly to the pump with the surface skimmer. Result mushed up whatever, sent straight back into the pond,

      Result, never ending suspension or cloudiness.

      The vortex or drum or whatever is his first round thing with the two bottom drains connected.

      Rubbish straight into the filter bed

      Garfield
      Last edited by coolwon; 02-18-2017 at 02:17 PM.

    9. #49
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MCAsan View Post
      No settlement chamber works on neutral to positive buoyancy as Waddy found out years ago even with those huge vortexes he had. Then he put in a barrier, The Answer with 100 micron screens, and found out just how much mulm was going through a settlement chamber and landing on the matting cartridges.

      The best mechanical stage filter is likely a rotary drum filter that captures and removes in the 50micron range. Arguably the second best are sieves which are in the 200-300micron range. After that likely static beds or walls of brushes. But the brushes can be a PITA to clean.
      --Steve
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    10. #50
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      I do admit that the concrete collar does make everything much more stable!
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    11. #51
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      Looks great! A lot of work but you won't be sorry.
      --Steve
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      "It is far better to be alone, than to be in bad company." --George Washington

    12. #52
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by MCAsan View Post
      Sounds like it time for version 2 of the pond....with 4" bottom drains and pipes directly to a filter pit. Skimmer can use 3" or 4" to the filter pit.
      Trying to work out what a filter pit is?

      A pit sounds like an enclosure. Probable below ground and the top level with the surrounding ground level.

      Maybe a coal pit.

      Maybe a suitable enclosure to terminate pond pipes.

      A settlement tank with no filters maybe!

      Can't be neutral to positive buoyancy.

      Those system's don't work, Peter Waddington found that out years ago.

      I must be very fortunate, mine works very very well as far I can see by the sh1t I have pumped out of it for the last +- 20 years.

      Ah well you win some you lose some I suppose that's koi keeping.

      Garfield

      Last edited by coolwon; 02-19-2017 at 09:54 AM.
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    13. #53
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      Trying to work out what a filter pit is?
      One example:



      --Steve
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    14. #54
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      Mary has the actuators to lift like Steve. it was funny she said watch this hit button on remote and it started to lift. she had a little grin on her face. Pretty cool stuff.

      When closed you barely notice it's there.

      --Steve
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    15. #55
      vvnguyen1981 is offline Member
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      Heres my progress so far. By removing all the stones, putting in the concrete collar and now putting back the stone, I'm actually piecing both water falls together a lot better then before.

      Skimmer is working a lot better now that it is tied directly to the pump inlet.

      I know a lot of you guys have different philosophies on your koi pond builds. I came from a roughly 2000 gallon pond. One 1200 gph sub pump going directly to a pressurized uv bio/mech filter then to my waterfall while my skimmer had another 1200 gph sub pump inside pushing the water directly to the same waterfall. Once the koi pond balanced out, my water was clear to the bottom. A slight hint of green but nothing unusually.

      My main question today is this. Anyone running 3" bottom drains ever had the drains clog up under normal use? Koi waste, possible yard debris?

      Thank you!
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    16. #56
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by vvnguyen1981 View Post
      Heres my progress so far. By removing all the stones, putting in the concrete collar and now putting back the stone, I'm actually piecing both water falls together a lot better then before.

      Skimmer is working a lot better now that it is tied directly to the pump inlet.

      I know a lot of you guys have different philosophies on your koi pond builds. I came from a roughly 2000 gallon pond. One 1200 gph sub pump going directly to a pressurized uv bio/mech filter then to my waterfall while my skimmer had another 1200 gph sub pump inside pushing the water directly to the same waterfall. Once the koi pond balanced out, my water was clear to the bottom. A slight hint of green but nothing unusually.

      My main question today is this. Anyone running 3" bottom drains ever had the drains clog up under normal use? Koi waste, possible yard debris?

      Thank you!
      You're completely right... lots of philosophies and designs but you're the only one who gets to decide because it's yours.
      If you browse through mine or any of the other "build" threads you'll see how many suggestions you'll get... it's all part of posting on
      a forum. No one's wrong or right, but each gives there heart felt opinions on how you should proceed which all are valid. Only you get
      to decide how you go with yours.

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...2-s-Pond-Build

      Glad things are going well... looks great imo.
      Something I did on mine was mortar all the rocks underwater around the perimeter to try and keep debris from collecting in the spaces... just
      something to think about in the future if it becomes an issue.



      Imo yours is looking great!
      --Steve
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    17. #57
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevin32 View Post
      I had 1 4 inch drain on 3800 gallon pond. got a string algae bloom and almost starved my settlement tank. so yes drains can glog.
      Flowing how many gph?
      --Steve
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    18. #58
      vvnguyen1981 is offline Member
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      On a positive note, here is where my koi have been staying during the koi pond build. Water is crystal clear!
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    19. #59
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      Quote Originally Posted by vvnguyen1981 View Post
      Heres my progress so far. By removing all the stones, putting in the concrete collar and now putting back the stone, I'm actually piecing both water falls together a lot better then before.

      Skimmer is working a lot better now that it is tied directly to the pump inlet.

      I know a lot of you guys have different philosophies on your koi pond builds. I came from a roughly 2000 gallon pond. One 1200 gph sub pump going directly to a pressurized uv bio/mech filter then to my waterfall while my skimmer had another 1200 gph sub pump inside pushing the water directly to the same waterfall. Once the koi pond balanced out, my water was clear to the bottom. A slight hint of green but nothing unusually.

      My main question today is this. Anyone running 3" bottom drains ever had the drains clog up under normal use? Koi waste, possible yard debris?

      Thank you!
      Good looking and great job ...

      Can not answer you since both of my bd is 4" ... but it also depend on what we allow to flow / settle and it tie up to the sieve flow rate / pump.

      http://www.calctool.org/CALC/eng/civil/hazen-williams_g to calculate how much gravity flow change on your pipe design.

    20. #60
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by vvnguyen1981 View Post
      ...My main question today is this. Anyone running 3" bottom drains ever had the drains clog up under normal use? Koi waste, possible yard debris?

      Thank you!
      The key is normal use. Like Catfish said originally the two sections tied together will only flow as much as a single 3" pipe, so your
      flow in those sections (BD to wye) are going to be the weak link and potential to clog imo.
      The thing about many of the vortex style containers too is the outlet to the pump isn't adjustable for draw down so depending on how
      many inches below water level, that's the max you're able to flow... and if it's only a few inches, I think you'll still have trouble gravity
      flowing enough through that single 3" pipe to feed that pump. If not, again like Catfish said, a suction style system maybe your only option
      without redoing the BD's.
      --Steve
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