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Thread: DIY RDF "2.0", The Beast

  1. #101
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    why are you putting the 4" lines so high. you should move them as low as you can, this will allow the rdf to continue to run if the pond level drops more then normal, also i assume you have an auto filler installed if this fails having the 4' lines lower would be a good benefit.

    as for the 2" drain its really not needed if you move the 4' lines down you could close the valves and remove the ferncos and drain the rdf.

    and yes do check for leaks before cutting any holes to leak lol.
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  2. #102
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    Nice seal. That's the method I ended up using. It's a pretty good seal and keeps the friction and wear down. On my rdf, I have the inputs about 3 inches from the bottom. What I have found is that debris starts to collect at the corners and underneath the inputs. If I could do it over again, I would place them as lows as possible to sweep the bottom so nothing collects. If you look at the professional units, I think this is one of the reasons they place them so close to the bottom.
    I think I will be placing some air stones in the input chamber to keep everything from settling, and have the advantage of added oxygen. Keep up the good work!

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwickcut View Post
    why are you putting the 4" lines so high. you should move them as low as you can,.......
    it will also produce greater flow. Think of a water tube leveler, as one end of the tube is lowered the water will move faster out of the tube.
    Last edited by rayjay; 1 Day Ago at 12:57 AM.
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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwickcut View Post
    why are you putting the 4" lines so high. you should move them as low as you can, this will allow the rdf to continue to run if the pond level drops more then normal, also i assume you have an auto filler installed if this fails having the 4' lines lower would be a good benefit.

    as for the 2" drain its really not needed if you move the 4' lines down you could close the valves and remove the ferncos and drain the rdf.

    and yes do check for leaks before cutting any holes to leak lol.
    Why? Oh, because I didn't think about the pond level dropping! Playing devil's advocate though, there's a good chance that if the pond level drops, it's due to a leak in the filter system. Having the filter system continue to operate while at the same time being the source of the problem is a double-edged sword. I get your point, but having the inlets only "sort of low" designs in some self-protection, in that if there is a leak, it can't drain the pond to a point that the fish are at risk.

    My thinking is subject to change at any time.
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huysy View Post
    Nice seal. That's the method I ended up using. It's a pretty good seal and keeps the friction and wear down. On my rdf, I have the inputs about 3 inches from the bottom. What I have found is that debris starts to collect at the corners and underneath the inputs. If I could do it over again, I would place them as lows as possible to sweep the bottom so nothing collects. If you look at the professional units, I think this is one of the reasons they place them so close to the bottom.
    I think I will be placing some air stones in the input chamber to keep everything from settling, and have the advantage of added oxygen. Keep up the good work!
    I can't claim originality for the seal; I think I got that idea from Zoran's thread.

    That's a very good point about debris on the inlet side; it's happening now in my RDF v1.0. That, coupled with the above post about working with a lower-than-normal pond level, have convinced me to lower them.
    Last edited by kimini; 1 Day Ago at 03:36 PM.
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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayjay View Post
    it will also produce greater flow. Think of a water tube leveler, as one end of the tube is lowered the water will move faster out of the tube.
    I understand where you're coming from but don't think this is correct. Picture two water containers, one a foot higher than the other, with a pipe connecting them. No matter the routing of the pipe or where it connect to the tanks, as long as its ends are below the surface of the water, all that matters is the water level in the tanks.
    Last edited by kimini; 1 Day Ago at 10:39 AM.
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  7. #107
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    The expanded and flattened stainless screen that supports the filter has sharp-as-hell edges. After handling it, my hands always look like I've been playing with a box of razor blades. I'm concerned that the filter screen's back-and-forth movement may result in it getting sawed through by those edges, and to smooth it down there's a few ways to go. One is to do it chemically, but since it's 316 stainless there's nothing practical/safe that's going to work. There's using a wire wheel, but the wire will get embedded in it and rust (not sure if that's true if stainless wire wheels are used). Then there's sand-blasting; this is attractive because it naturally knocks down the high points first, isn't too expensive, and best of all, I get to drop it off and it magically gets done when I'm at my day job. Price-wise, sand blasting is about a dollar a minute, so it's a toss up going that way or just getting a stainless wire wheel and doing it myself.
    Last edited by kimini; 1 Day Ago at 11:51 AM.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
    The expanded and flattened stainless screen that supports the filter has sharp-as-hell edges. After handling it, my hands always look like I've been playing with a box of razor blades. I'm concerned that the filter screen's back-and-forth movement may result in it getting sawed through by those edges, and to smooth it down there's a few ways to go. One is to do it chemically, but since it's 316 stainless there's nothing practical/safe that's going to work. There's using a wire wheel, but the wire will get embedded in it and rust (not sure if that's true if stainless wire wheels are used). Then there's sand-blasting; this is attractive because it naturally knocks down the high points first, isn't too expensive, and best of all, I get to drop it off and it magically gets done when I'm at my day job. Price-wise, sand blasting is about a dollar a minute, so it's a toss up going that way or just getting a stainless wire wheel and doing it myself.

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  9. #109
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    I know this is really late, but wouldn't it have been better to use expanded pvc with cnc milled openings that was heat formed around the frame of the drum. Then you could wrap the wire screen around it and secure with clamping bands? You would save a lot of weight, simplifying the chain drive as well as the screen chafing?












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  10. #110
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    Depends upon what "better" means. I saw that thread but there's a million ways of doing things. What did the material cost, what was the CNC expense, who did the heat forming? How many failed/ruined attempts were there (and each time, the CNC work/expense is added in). If you read either of my car books you'd know how insecure I am, sure that everyone else has better ideas than I do - and they do! But hey, people can read through this thread and decide how they want to proceed... and may very likely just buy one!
    Last edited by kimini; 1 Day Ago at 03:37 PM.
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    Found my demon. I looked through my drawings and found the goof that caused the overall housing to be too short. There it was right in front of me, the "48.125" at the top of the page magically turning into "40.125" in the middle of the page. Oh well, I moved past and moved on; the drum's still really huge compared with other units.

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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
    I understand where you're coming from but don't think this is correct. Picture two water containers, one a foot higher than the other, with a pipe connecting them. No matter the routing of the pipe or where it connect to the tanks, as long as its ends are below the surface of the water, all that matters is the water level in the tanks.
    That is true with the pipe routing already determined and connected, i.e., static. What I'm suggestion to determine where the pipe connections should be made for maximum flow. Picture or get a hose, tubing are whatever and fill it fully (end-to-end) and imagine one end being the pond and the other end the inputs to your RDF. With both ends at the same height, lower one end of the tube slowly (RDF input) and watch how more water will flow more quickly as that end is lowered. Other way to visualize, how much water will get to the RDF if the input pipes run above pond level.
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  13. #113
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    If the RDF is empty, I agree completely, but if they're at equilibrium I'm still not seeing it. Connect said hose to two container, one at each end of the hose, filling both half full. Now raise or lower one relative to the other and the resulting flow is directly related to the fluid height in the containers, not where the hose connects to the containers.

    I think what you're saying is that if you have two containers and connect their bottoms together, they'll equalize levels faster than if they're connected mid-distance toward the top, but I contend it doesn't matter where the pipes feed in as long as they're both below surface level.

    Or maybe I'm dragging you down to my level!
    Last edited by kimini; 1 Day Ago at 04:07 PM.
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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
    If the RDF is empty, I agree completely, but if they're at equilibrium I'm still not seeing it. Connect said hose to two container, one at each end of the hose, filling both half full. Now raise or lower one relative to the other and the resulting flow is directly related to the fluid height in the containers, not where the hose connects to the containers.

    I think what you're saying is that if you have two containers and connect their bottoms together, they'll equalize levels faster than if they're connected mid-distance toward the top, but I contend it doesn't matter where the pipes feed in as long as they're both below surface level.

    Or maybe I'm dragging you down to my level!
    And therefore allowing the pump to draw more water faster out of the RDF. Before installing an RDF I had a BD connected to the bottom of a 55gal drum and a skimmer connect to the bottom of another drum (two separate circuits), both at pond level. The rush of water entering the empty BD drum was much, much stronger than the empty skimmer drum. I have the smaller RDF and with the RDF sitting a pond level, the inputs are about 1' below pond level. Opening the BD circuit into a empty RDF there is no where near the same rush as with the bottom of the drum.

    As an old-time amateur I interpret this a limiting factor of the GPH that can be drawn out of the RDF by the pumb...
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  15. #115
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    I think we're saying the same thing, just different. I'm saying that with both containers full and everything at equilibrium, where the pipes connect doesn't matter. You're saying when one tank is empty, it very much does matter, which I agree with. In practice though, gravity-flow systems don't have a head measured in feet, but in fractions of an inch, so the advantage of a pipe entering at the bottom goes away.

    Regardless, I will be locating the inlets as low as possible.
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  16. #116
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    I'm with kimini... but I would agree that the lower pipe allows for a potentially larger flow but only
    because the it allows for a larger change in levels between the two containers.
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