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  • Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
    Results 21 to 40 of 43

    Thread: Various symptoms.

    1. #21
      kntry's Avatar
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      Yes, retreat for the entire pond volume. ProForm only stays active for about 6 hours or so.

      After the 1st Prazi treatment on day 3 and waiting the 7 days, on day 10 do 1 water change and retreat with only the Prazi. No water changes for 7 more days. Then do a 25% water change and back to your regular weekly changes.

      If you've mixed fish/nets/hands, etc. from the pond to the QT, yes, treat the QT also.

      Ammar had good advice about increasing the air during treatment.

      Keep an eye on your water parameters during the 7 days of no water changes. If needed, add a binder like Prime or Ultimate.
      Sandy
      CKK, KHA

    2. #22
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      Thank you everyone!

    3. #23
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      Keep an eye on the one with the ulcer until it is healed. The skin of the fish is a membrane that is between the fish/blood/tissue and the water. A damaged membrane will allow larger quantities of water to enter the fish, diluting the blood. The kidneys try to regulate the internal water level, and if overcome with too much water, symptoms of dropsy, ie pinecone of scales, or popeye will develop. With this size ulcer, it may not overpower the kidneys but you need to be on the alert. If it shows signs of thickening of scales, or popeye, get back with us.

      PP can be as effective as Proform C, in my opinion, but it needs to be measured during the entire treatment. It is consumed by organics in the pond, first dissolved organics, then small organics, then larger like parasites, and continue to very large like fish. If it is too strong, the gills can be compromised by being burned significantly, if too weak or too many organics in the pond, then it does not have the strength or longevity to kill the parasites. They do make test strips for measuring the concentration at any point in time. No matter which oxidizer is used, chlorine, PP, formalin, they are all consumed, and all will kill.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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      Richard

    4. #24
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      Rich,
      are you saying that i can use pp as a substitute for proform c?
      if so, at what concentration and duration?

      thnks

    5. #25
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      Unless you have the test kit for strength, I don't recommend it. I use PP, but at a constant 2ppm for 4 hours, but I have to redose about every 15 minutes due to the constant decay of the amount of active PP in the pond. Proform C seems to be a better system for those without test kits.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    6. #26
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      ProFormC is much better/safer to use especially for those that aren't POSITIVE how many gallons of water they truly have as well.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    7. #27
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      Proform C it is.

      Thanks

    8. #28
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      Let's do this
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    9. #29
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      Everything looks ready. Except, don't waste you/your fishes time with that medicated food. Just keep extremely good, clean water after treatment and keep any stressors to a minimum.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    10. #30
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      Mike,

      Thanks for your response. It isn't time wasted..$$$.. The koi place I went to instructed me to buy it...I didnt get the impression that he was pushing useless things on me to make a buck...but I could be wrong.

      Does it have any use? Should I save it? Use it anyway? Throw it out? Thanks.

    11. #31
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      Thje biggest problem with medicated food is that the dosage is hard to determine and getting sick fish to eat is often difficult. I don't know if the food says how many pellets to feed a fish of a given length, which is the way that injectible antibiotics are used, or if it just says to feed, in which case, how much, how often, etc. If the antibiotic food is not consumed quickly, the antibiotic enters the pond and will act on the filter bacteria. The Tricide Neo, or Triple Antibiotic Ointment are much better options. Just be sure to put the fish in a clean rinse bath before placing back in the pond.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
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      Richard

    12. #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by Simplejustin View Post
      Mike,

      Thanks for your response. It isn't time wasted..$$$.. The koi place I went to instructed me to buy it...I didnt get the impression that he was pushing useless things on me to make a buck...but I could be wrong.

      Does it have any use? Should I save it? Use it anyway? Throw it out? Thanks.
      Don't know who you visited, but Rich's info is spot on. There are too many variables with trying to feed this type of food and it's more of a gimmick than a real cure product. I'll leave the decision about your encounter with that dealer up to you.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    13. #33
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      If the bag is sealed see if they will take it back. From a Rick F post:

      Romet is a mix of sulfadimethoxine and ormetoprim. Technically speaking, they are anti-infectives, but not antibiotics. Sulfadimethoxine inhibits bacterial synthesis of folic acid (pteroylglutamic acid) from para-aminobenzoic acid. As such, it is bacteriostatic (prevents bacteria from growing), but it is not bactericidal (i.e., it does not kill bacteria). It has been shown to be effective against many Streptococci, Klebsiella, Proteus, Shigella, Staphylococci, Escherichia, and salmonella species.

      Ormetroprim is an analog of the more commonly used trimethoprim. Ormetroprim works by blocking folate metabolism via dihydrofolate reductase in some bacteria which results in their death. It is effective against some strains of Escherichia coli, Proteus mirabilis, Klebsiella pneumoniae, Enterobacter species, Coagulase-negative Staphylococcus species, Streptococcus pneumoniae, and Haemophilus influenzae. Ormetroprim is also effective against some protozoan species.

      Neither drug alone or in combination is effective against Pseudomonas or Aeromonas species, and ulcers in fish are often caused by Aeromonas.

      The problem with this mix of drugs is that for the product to work, there must be constant concentrations of the drug above the minimum inhibitory concentration until the fish's immune system can knock out the remaining bacteria. As you have discovered, the medication washes off the food quickly, fish are reluctant to eat it, and the sickest fish tend to eat even less.
      Last edited by RickF; 07-13-2016 at 03:45 PM.
      My opinions in ER and on this forum are mine only. Use my advice at your own discretion.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."


      K.O.I.

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    14. #34
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      Here's a description, from the retail seller concerning this medicated food product.

      This food contains all the nutrients needed to help ornamental fish heal quickly. Contains four antibiotics and may help heal ulcers.

      Available in 1-, 5- and 10-lb bags. Must be fed continuously for 10 days. For use on ornamental and nonfood fish not intended for human consumption. Chemical waiver form required. 3-mm sinking pellet.

      Note: A completed Chemical Waiver Form is required to purchase this item. If you already have a Chemical Waiver Form on file with us, you do not need to fill out another one.


      It only mentions that there are FOUR different products added to this food. It doesn't say what is really included. I know of a couple that add Tetracycline and a couple other items to their foods. The problems are really already mentioned in Rich's post. No need to belabor the point any further. I seriously doubt ANYONE on the Health Care Committee would recommend using any of these products.
      Last edited by koiman1950; 10-22-2016 at 09:32 PM.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    15. #35
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      Mike, I hope this was aimed at the OP.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    16. #36
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      If you have to ask, well,....
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    17. #37
      kntry's Avatar
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      Also, Fixadent is not going to work. You need denture POWDER, not cream.

      The other advice is perfect!
      Sandy
      CKK, KHA

    18. #38
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      Ill exchange for the powder. Thanks

    19. #39
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      There are good aftermarket sealer like kusuri top coat but denture powder is cheaper and more readily available.

      If you would like to give your fish food that will support their immune system propolis is a good additive and cooked garlic. Just add some propolis to some pond water and let the food soak for 5-10 minutes and just feed to your koi also throw the rest of the water away. Propolis is natural and I havent heard any reports of.it affecting the bacteria in filters. It can also replace the denture powder as a sealer but in my experience it is that good as a seal though it holds good antibacterial and antiparasite. properties. Garlic is meant to have anti parasitic properties your koi my not eat it or suck it and spit it back out for a week or so but they eventually eat it.

      Medicated food isnt worth it your koi need perfect water to heal and as mentioned by rich the antibiotic can leach into the water and into filters killing the bacteria causing ammonia spikes and nitrite spike which for even healthy fish is bad.

    20. #40
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      Day 1- yesterday i started proform C treatment after 75% water change
      Day 2- same as above. And I treated the ulcer with betadine, neosporin, and denture powder in that order.

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