• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
    Results 1 to 20 of 43

    Thread: Various symptoms.

    1. #1
      Simplejustin is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2016
      Location
      Long Island, NY
      Posts
      56

      Various symptoms.

      Hello Koiphen members,

      My name is Justin, I am from Long Island NY, and this is my story.

      I am having trouble with my indoor koi pond. It first started when i saw a koi by itself on the other side of the pond, but i thought nothing of it as itlooked to be eating algae off the side. That koi died a day later. Then 2 days pass and a goldfish died. Now, while feeding the pond, I see what looks to be an open wound on the side of one of my koi. Some fish have split fins, some have dilated pupils, and another
      Looks to be missing its dorsal fin.

      Tank size:
      400 gallons

      Filtration:
      55 gallon drum (starting from bottom, coarse matala, finer matala, filter floss, lava rock.)

      Parameters:
      Ammonia-0
      Nitrate-10
      Nitrtite-0
      Ph-7.4

      Pond inhabitants:
      25 1-2" goldfish
      25 3-4" butterfly koi
      4 4-5" koi
      1 8" koi

      Water change:
      Once a week at 50%

      New additions:
      None

      Thanks in advance everybody!

    2. #2
      Simplejustin is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2016
      Location
      Long Island, NY
      Posts
      56
      Hopefully these pics help
      Attached Images Attached Images    

    3. #3
      Aamar is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2016
      Location
      England
      Posts
      62
      Hi
      Are you using a liquid test kit. Split fins, ulcers and bulging eyes are usually a sign of bacterial infection which can be caused from parasites or poor water quality. Are any of your fishes rubbing or flashing (swimming on the side for a brief moment )

    4. #4
      kntry's Avatar
      kntry is offline 2017 KPOTY ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2004
      Location
      Folsom, Louisiana
      Posts
      14,174
      That little one looks very thin. That is an ulcer and a pretty serious one. You need to clean the ulcer with peroxide on a cotton ball being careful to not get it in the eyes or gills. Rinse, pat dry with a paper towel and put a mixture of antibiotic and Tri-Cide Neo (order online) and then sprinkle denture powder over it to seal the meds in.

      When is the last time you took the Matala out of the barrel and cleaned it? Is the filter cycled? Lava rock is not the best choice to use underwater as it clogs very fast and gives parasites and bacteria a place to grow. Do you have a bottom drain? Is the bottom clean or is there muck on the bottom? You have a large fish load in 400 gallons. You would do better to do 2 water changes of 25% spaced out over the week.

      You said there are no new additions but all these fish are very small. Were they all bought from the same tank, at the same time?
      Sandy
      CKK, KHA

    5. #5
      Simplejustin is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2016
      Location
      Long Island, NY
      Posts
      56
      Sandy, thank you for your response.

      The last time I took the matala out is a month ago. I rinsed with tap water as I am counting on the lava rock to harbor beneficial bacteria.

      As far as the antibiotic, would minicycline do? I have that on hand. If not, I will order whatever is recommended.

      The filter is cycled. (Was at least) when i started losing koi i did a PP treatment for 4 hours. Since then (6 days ago) I have been doing every other day water changes at 50%

      Bottom drain- i have one in the 55 gallon drum, none on the pond itself. There is no muck in the pond. The water flows in a way where it all ends up in the filter. When i do water changes I open up the bottom drain in the drum. Sometimes I pour pond water in the drum to "flush"

      Came from 3 different sources.
      25 goldfish came from petco. This was 7+ months ago, first additions to the pond.
      25 koi came from nextdaykoi.com 5 months ago.
      The few larger ones came from a local seller. This was about 2 months ago.
      I did not quarentine any fish.

      Thanks again Sandy

    6. #6
      Simplejustin is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2016
      Location
      Long Island, NY
      Posts
      56
      Some more pics
      Attached Images Attached Images    

    7. #7
      cindy's Avatar
      cindy is offline Moderator ~ WWKC Vice President ~
      Koi Health Care Committee Member
      is Hopeful
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      May 2004
      Location
      Mt. Wash. KY - 7 miles outside Louisville
      Posts
      63,443
      Quote Originally Posted by kntry View Post
      That little one looks very thin. That is an ulcer and a pretty serious one. You need to clean the ulcer with peroxide on a cotton ball being careful to not get it in the eyes or gills. Rinse, pat dry with a paper towel and put a mixture of antibiotic and Tri-Cide Neo (order online) and then sprinkle denture powder over it to seal the meds in.

      When is the last time you took the Matala out of the barrel and cleaned it? Is the filter cycled? Lava rock is not the best choice to use underwater as it clogs very fast and gives parasites and bacteria a place to grow. Do you have a bottom drain? Is the bottom clean or is there muck on the bottom? You have a large fish load in 400 gallons. You would do better to do 2 water changes of 25% spaced out over the week.

      You said there are no new additions but all these fish are very small. Were they all bought from the same tank, at the same time?
      Have to agree with Sandy, you have alot of fish for 400 gallons. Are you using a chloramine binder when you do the water changes for ammonia and chlorine in the city water?

      I'd order Proform C and a fluke treatment like Fluke M and follow the directions in the ER thread. http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ive-Discussion Sandy has good instructions for treating the fish with the ulcer. You can't add antibiotics to the water, you will kill your good bacteria.

      It sounds like for now you have good water quality. The problem happened when you mixed fish that have different bacteria and parasites and then everybody gets sick.
      My opinions in ER and on this forum are mine only. Use my advice at your own discretion.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."


      K.O.I.

      Member: EIHIOICGI

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...nd-Information

      http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...06#post2606106 Show thread

    8. #8
      kntry's Avatar
      kntry is offline 2017 KPOTY ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2004
      Location
      Folsom, Louisiana
      Posts
      14,174
      You need to order Tri-Cide Neo online. You can use a tube of Triple Antibiotic and denture powder for people.

      When you rinse the mats, are you using chlorinated water? If you're using the mats as a mechanical filter, they need to be rinsed weekly. You can't depend on lava rock as bio because it clogs very fast.

      You have too many fish in 400 gallons. As they grow, which they are doing slowly due to overcrowding, you are going to have more problems. Koi need a minimum of 250 gallons per koi when they get a little larger.

      When you did the PP treatment, did you bypass the filter?
      Sandy
      CKK, KHA

    9. #9
      Simplejustin is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2016
      Location
      Long Island, NY
      Posts
      56
      Cindy,
      I use seachem safe to treat the water.

      I have been soaking their food in Minocycline in hopes that it would be getting the antibiotics into their system. Should i keep up at this?

      I am using chlorinated water to rinse the mats.

      I have decided to start by getting rid of all the goldfish, and then gradually thinning out the koi as they get larger.

      Thank you.

    10. #10
      Simplejustin is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2016
      Location
      Long Island, NY
      Posts
      56
      Sandy,

      I will order Tri-cide Neo.

      I have praziquantel on hand. Would that be of use in this situation?

      Thanks

    11. #11
      Aamar is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2016
      Location
      England
      Posts
      62
      I think minocycline may help as its broad spectrum antibiotic. The problem with antibiotic food is that it will damage your filter bacteria and with the pp treatment you did that may have wipe a lot out keep up with the water changes and keep testing ammonia and nitrite binders will definitely help. Do you have a quarantine tank ? And what medications do you have ? Please read the link that cindy posted it is really good advice

    12. #12
      Simplejustin is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2016
      Location
      Long Island, NY
      Posts
      56
      A few more questions...

      1. Is there a better way to setup the filter? ( i was thinking of swapping the lava rock for a k1 moving bed)

      2. I am a bit confused on the treatment plan, would somone be kind enough to give me a day by day plan? I'll follow it precisely.

      3. This is what I am planning on buying, please let me know if I am missing something, or if two products do the same thing:
      Tri-cide Neo,
      Dentire powder,
      Triple antibiotic (over the counter?)
      Proform C,
      Fluke M

      Things that I have that could be potential substitutes:
      Praziquantel, Minocycline antibiotic, hydrogen peroxide.

      I appreciate everyone's help.
      Thanks members

    13. #13
      Simplejustin is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2016
      Location
      Long Island, NY
      Posts
      56
      Sandy,
      I did not bypass the filter during treatment.

    14. #14
      Simplejustin is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2016
      Location
      Long Island, NY
      Posts
      56
      Aamar,
      Sorry I missed your post.
      I am using an API master test kit. I saw one fish flash once. A koi rubbed its side at the bottom.

      Thank you

    15. #15
      kntry's Avatar
      kntry is offline 2017 KPOTY ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2004
      Location
      Folsom, Louisiana
      Posts
      14,174
      When you did the PP treatment, you killed your filter. So you are starting with a new pond, basically. When you clean the filter mats with chlorinated water, you are killing the filter. Just like the chlorine damages the gills of your fish and will kill them, it kills the bacteria in the bio filter. You should rinse the mats with pond water or treated faucet water.

      Clean the wound like already stated above. You should wait until you get the Tri-Cide since you should only clean the wound once. Yes, Triple Antibiotic and denture powder are over the counter meds. Once you clean the wound and apply the salve mixed with some Tri-Cide powder and sprinkle with denture powder, put the koi in a QT with a buddy so you can put more salve and powder every day. DO NOT clean the wound more than once. Just reapply the meds and denture powder. Do this 4-5 days or until the wound isn't so red. You should start to see a white line around the edges of the wound. This is new skin growing so you don't want to disturb it. If you can keep the QT water around 78, that will speed up the healing process.

      You're on a good plan to rehome the goldies and thin out the koi. In that size pond, you shouldn't have more than 2 koi. If kept in the right conditions, koi the age of yours should be at least 10-15" now.

      As for the filter, your best combination would be a Sand and Gravel filter with a shower. If you're interested and need instructions, look for Birdman Sand and Gravel in the Construction forum. I can help you with a shower if there's no instructions there.
      Sandy
      CKK, KHA

    16. #16
      kntry's Avatar
      kntry is offline 2017 KPOTY ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2004
      Location
      Folsom, Louisiana
      Posts
      14,174
      Almost forgot.

      Do a water 25% water change, do a ProForm treatment, water change the next day and ProForm. On the 3rd treatment, do a 25% water change and do the ProForm and Prazi. You may want to mix the Prazi with some Vodka to dissolve it because it doesn't dissolve easily in water. Do not do another water change for 7 days. If you want, you can do one more Prazi treatment and no water change for another 7 days. This will make sure you get the adults and eggs.

      Don't buy the Fluke M. Prazi is fine.
      Sandy
      CKK, KHA

    17. #17
      Aamar is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2016
      Location
      England
      Posts
      62
      K1 is good filter media but nitrobactors that change ammonia into nitrite dont colonise as quick as they could so you end up having a prolonged maturing time. But once colonised it is very good a few people treat their k1 media with pp to remove the outer coating which inturn makes the media neutrality buoyant rather than positively buoyant and help the surface to become more easier to culture on. Your pond appears to be in doors and an air pump running at 70l per minute may make it quite loud.

      I follow the same plan as shown in the stick for this part of the forum the link posted by cindy which is for parasites

      Day 1 20% water change and treat with FMG mix/ proform C

      Day 2 20% water change and treat with FMG mix/ proform C

      Day 3 20% water change and treat with FMG mix/ proform C with fluke M or prazi

      Let the water sit for 7 days then repeat. You will want to scrape and check for parasites after the second treatment.

      Only thing your missing is gloves the last thing you want is FMG on your hand not only is it dangerous but awkward when you have a green hand. Iodine is helpful to have with hydrogen peroxide.

      Flashing is a sign of irritation with koi as they try physically removing what irritating then usually it is parasites but always test to see if you have parasites rather then throwing chemicals in and stressing fish.

      Its not that bad not bypassing your filter the media will get a clean and parasites in the media will get killed. I usually recommend doing a dip if your using pp unless you have a serious infestation. Also pp is an oxidising agent this will strip oxygen from your pond and other treatments may also do the same so increase aeration if possible. Also pp may harm new skin forming an ulcer so you may be better doing a topical treatment. For this you will need to sedate the koi either with clove oil or an aftermarket sedative and clean the wound with either iodine or hydrogen peroxide then you can use tricide neo and spray the area or dry the area with a paper towel and apply a triple antibiotic like neosporin then use the denture powder to seal it. The best advice I was given was not how well the ulcer is seal after applying the antibiotic but how long the antibiotic stays on the area the longer the better so just applying the tricide neo or triple antibiotic and denture powder letting it sit for while will benefit more then just applying and putting the fish in the water and hoping the denture powder holds up.

    18. #18
      Aamar is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2016
      Location
      England
      Posts
      62
      You beat me to it kntry

    19. #19
      Simplejustin is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2016
      Location
      Long Island, NY
      Posts
      56
      Thank you Sandy!
      I am going to order proform C, and tricide. I am going to buy the triple antibiotic and denture powder today.

      As far as the instructions you gave me:

      Day 1- 25% water change proform treatment

      Day 2- 25% water change proform treatment

      Day 3- 25% water chnage proform and prazi

      Day 10- start regular water change routine

      Day 17- retreat prazi to ensure complete eradication

      Now, during the first three days, am i retreating for the entire volume of the pond,even though i have only taken out 25% of the proform c?

      Also, should i follow this same procedure in the QT tank? Thanks

    20. #20
      Simplejustin is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2016
      Location
      Long Island, NY
      Posts
      56
      Ammar,
      Thank you very much!

    Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •