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    Thread: Sand & Gravel Lesson Learned

    1. #41
      ricshaw is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiRun View Post
      Why can’t S&G be downflow with an overflow to the pond?
      Do you mean gravity flow down?


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    2. #42
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      Not familiar with the lingos gravity fed, flow up, down etc. I guess instead of water going up the barrel, why not going down like a shower?
      Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. ---- Marthe Troly-Curtin

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    3. #43
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiRun View Post
      Not familiar with the lingos gravity fed, flow up, down etc. I guess instead of water going up the barrel, why not going down like a shower?
      The sand and gravel media creates too much head to down flow without the filter being sealed. I think it would
      simply overflow unless the flow was at a very slow rate.

      Up flow= water fed from the bottom, exits the top
      Down flow= water fed from the top and exits the bottom
      --Steve



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    4. #44
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      The sand and gravel media creates too much head to down flow without the filter being sealed. I think it would
      simply overflow unless the flow was at a very slow rate.

      Up flow= water fed from the bottom, exits the top
      Down flow= water fed from the top and exits the bottom
      Thanks for the explanation Steve. Wouldn’t up flow create a lot of head for a pump to push water up? Does this mean it is always pump fed? Need a strong pump I guess??? Sorry for not being familiar at all.
      Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. ---- Marthe Troly-Curtin

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    5. #45
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiRun View Post
      Thanks for the explanation Steve. Wouldn’t up flow create a lot of head for a pump to push water up? Does this mean it is always pump fed? Need a strong pump I guess??? Sorry for not being familiar at all.
      Depends on the filter and the media. A moving bed is often gravity fed and normally an up flow design but the K1 in
      suspension has very little head so it works fine either way. My s/g filter media creates about 11"-17" of head so it'd be more
      of a challenge to gravity this up flow design and so most people pump feed them. But it really doesn't take a big pump to
      overcome that amount of head.
      --Steve



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    6. #46
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      Steve, just trying to understand how things work. Why not down flow into 2-3 barrels each with their own returns into the pond? Also how did you measure that 11-17” head?
      Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. ---- Marthe Troly-Curtin

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    7. #47
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiRun View Post
      Steve, just trying to understand how things work. Why not down flow into 2-3 barrels each with their own returns into the pond? Also how did you measure that 11-17” head?
      I'm just not sure what you would gain using 2 or 3 barrels in a down flowing gravity return arrangement
      when you could pump feed one and flow the same?

      To measure the head I pumped to another barrel set at the same height as the s/g filter outlet and then
      gravity fed the s/g filter and measured how much higher I had to pump the water to create the flow at
      about 2000 gph. I think the actual head measurement I show on post #50:

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...-Gravel-Filter

      --Steve



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    8. #48
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      Quote Originally Posted by Blammo View Post
      Steve, Mary, Nanner, Gary,Nance, Brett, Brady, Savv, I'm forgetting hundreds...John up in NY...Bodycott...Wes That fella from Minnisoder* brilliant man---imported ornamental stuff ).
      Steve. Help me out bro. Toss pics !
      \When we all rebuilt the pond at the big house in Ponta.
      Childsquire and Cheryl ) Ida tapped that ;-)) and that big meathead with Lake Luke" as we called him. Luke is an extremely smart guy... Bickelgoi is a nice guy. Greg ? Quite the character.
      BAD mofo I think / Martial art stuff... Ida whooped him back in da day !

      Well. I figger you people are *** ? IS the the Blammo rant???? Ol Blamm is checking out. I beat it for over a decade but....I made my peace with Him. The number is called up and that's that !
      I love you all. ALWAYS.
      I'm so sorry Blammo. Try and stay positive.
      --Steve



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    9. #49
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiRun View Post
      Thanks for the explanation Steve. Wouldn’t up flow create a lot of head for a pump to push water up? Does this mean it is always pump fed? Need a strong pump I guess??? Sorry for not being familiar at all.
      Sand/Gravel/Rock filters have been around since the beginning of the Koi hobby.

      A gravity UPFLOW version:

      Name:  upflow.gif
Views: 759
Size:  18.4 KB


      The Birdman Sand/Gravel/Rock filter version is the best of 40 years of improvement.


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    10. #50
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      Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
      Sand/Gravel/Rock filters have been around since the beginning of the Koi hobby.

      A gravity UPFLOW version:

      Name:  upflow.gif
Views: 759
Size:  18.4 KB


      The Birdman Sand/Gravel/Rock filter version is the best of 40 years of improvement.
      Thanks for this. Now why is this called ‘gravity’? Also did you mean ‘gravity fed’ which is a term I hear a lot but don’t understand.
      Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. ---- Marthe Troly-Curtin

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    11. #51
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiRun View Post
      Thanks for this. Now why is this called ‘gravity’? Also did you mean ‘gravity fed’ which is a term I hear a lot but don’t understand.
      Think "gravity" water flow vs. "pump" water flow. Gravity flow requires larger pipe plumbing.


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    12. #52
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      Gravity water flow down flow.

      Name:  gravity_dwnflow.gif
Views: 828
Size:  18.6 KB


      Pump fed (pressure) up flow.

      Name:  pump_upflow.jpg
Views: 494
Size:  31.9 KB


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    13. #53
      ricshaw is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
      Sand/Gravel/Rock filters have been around since the beginning of the Koi hobby.
      While we are at it I will share how it started for me (first Koi pond filter) and many other hobbyists.

      An in-pond, down-flow biological filter:

      Name:  inpond.gif
Views: 471
Size:  8.8 KB

      Yes, the settling area was in the pond!


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    14. #54
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      Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
      While we are at it I will share how it started for me (first Koi pond filter) and many other hobbyists.

      An in-pond, down-flow biological filter:

      Name:  inpond.gif
Views: 471
Size:  8.8 KB

      Yes, the settling area was in the pond!
      Cool pic.
      This one is a little complicated; is this pump fed or gravity fed?
      Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. ---- Marthe Troly-Curtin

      KoiRun on YouTube, latest video:
      https://youtu.be/72iiuRXY2Wk

    15. #55
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiRun View Post
      Cool pic.
      This one is a little complicated; is this pump fed or gravity fed?
      hybrid


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    16. #56
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      Quote Originally Posted by Blammo View Post
      Steve, Mary, Nanner, Gary,Nance, Brett, Brady, Savv, I'm forgetting hundreds...John up in NY...Bodycott...Wes That fella from Minnisoder* brilliant man---imported ornamental stuff ).
      Steve. Help me out bro. Toss pics !
      \When we all rebuilt the pond at the big house in Ponta.
      Childsquire and Cheryl ) Ida tapped that ;-)) and that big meathead with Lake Luke" as we called him. Luke is an extremely smart guy... Bickelgoi is a nice guy. Greg ? Quite the character.
      BAD mofo I think / Martial art stuff... Ida whooped him back in da day !

      Well. I figger you people are *** ? IS the the Blammo rant???? Ol Blamm is checking out. I beat it for over a decade but....I made my peace with Him. The number is called up and that's that !
      I love you all. ALWAYS.
      Doug, I am so sorry.

      We had some good times here on Koiphen in the early years. I have enjoyed your posts & pics over the years.

      Please check in with us when you can.
      Nancy



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    17. #57
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      Quote Originally Posted by Blammo View Post
      Steve, Mary, Nanner, Gary,Nance, Brett, Brady, Savv, I'm forgetting hundreds...John up in NY...Bodycott...Wes That fella from Minnisoder* brilliant man---imported ornamental stuff ).
      Steve. Help me out bro. Toss pics !
      \When we all rebuilt the pond at the big house in Ponta.
      Childsquire and Cheryl ) Ida tapped that ;-)) and that big meathead with Lake Luke" as we called him. Luke is an extremely smart guy... Bickelgoi is a nice guy. Greg ? Quite the character.
      BAD mofo I think / Martial art stuff... Ida whooped him back in da day !

      Well. I figger you people are *** ? IS the the Blammo rant???? Ol Blamm is checking out. I beat it for over a decade but....I made my peace with Him. The number is called up and that's that !
      I love you all. ALWAYS.
      Sorry Blammo. This life is temporary, but our souls live forever. Peace
      DAN







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