• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Results 1 to 12 of 12

    Thread: something is hurting my koi and im not sure how to diagnose and treat???

    1. #1
      luv4scjjt is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Mar 2015
      Location
      upstate ny
      Posts
      54

      something is hurting my koi and im not sure how to diagnose and treat???

      My koi woke this spring with the first disease (or parasite) that i have ever seen on them. It is definitely hurting their skin. I dont notice any heavy breathing so dont think it is in gill's yet if it will go there. Just on their skin. My local pond store said to treat with salt as parasites cant survive in salt but i was wondering what you all treat with. I will post pics but im sorry they are not great. I didn't want to stress the fish out more by taking them out of the pond. I though it would be easier to treat them in a quarentine pond but someone pointed out that would stress them more and i am in klind to think they are right. So i will treat the whole pond. But how? The fish on the top has the worst case in the pond. You can kind of see it on his side under the red spot. His so far is the only one raised on the skin. The others who have it is just like pail spots on their skin?
      Attached Images Attached Images  

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    2. #2
      koiman1950's Avatar
      koiman1950 is offline Supporting Member
      is semi retired
       
      Feeling:
      Tired
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2008
      Location
      San Jose, Ca
      Posts
      19,244
      Any fish with that bad an infection should be removed immediately and treated both topically and by antibiotic injection. Your fish store people are wrong. Salt is no longer effective against most all parasites/bacterial infections. So, you could remove them all, dose the pond with a good heavy dose of PP, then drain and clean it before returning the fish. This will give you time, in quarantine, to treat the necessary fish as mentioned, and then also treat all the fish with a ProFormC/Terminate regimen and then a Prazi treatment. The pp treatment in the pond will kill off the organics after the first/second round treatment and leave a bunch of brown slime residual on everything. That's okay, it supposed to do that. When you drain and clean the pond, I would highly recommend you get a water flow meter that attaches to the hose and meter the water volume in the pond as well. This will tell you the exact # of gallons of water in the pond/system for future needs to treat any potential or real issues that arise.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net




      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    3. #3
      luv4scjjt is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Mar 2015
      Location
      upstate ny
      Posts
      54
      Sorry i forgot to post details about the pond....Its 4500 gal...30 koi, normally very regular once a week water changes but have done more this year because of the death of 4 koi with 2 found decomposing once ice melted. Filtration is biofall's and 2 pond canister pressure filters both rated for 4500 gal's. (thats why i got 2) double isn't good enough but i am working on more. I treat with bacteria every week. I usually keep the koi in the pond all winter but after loosing 4 this yr have decided to use this summer to set up a holding pond in my basement from now on. The pond is 5 yrs old but last year I made it from 3000 gal to 4500. I have'nt fed them yet this yr as water is still only averaging 60-65 day temps and we could still go down to 30's at night. Any more questions i will be happy to answer i just want my baby's ok....please help.

    4. #4
      luv4scjjt is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Mar 2015
      Location
      upstate ny
      Posts
      54
      Were can i get the topical treatments and what is PP? Could i get a list of the names of what you treat with? Im medicine dumb..lol

    5. #5
      koiman1950's Avatar
      koiman1950 is offline Supporting Member
      is semi retired
       
      Feeling:
      Tired
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2008
      Location
      San Jose, Ca
      Posts
      19,244
      Quote Originally Posted by luv4scjjt View Post
      Sorry i forgot to post details about the pond....Its 4500 gal...30 koi, normally very regular once a week water changes but have done more this year because of the death of 4 koi with 2 found decomposing once ice melted. Filtration is biofall's and 2 pond canister pressure filters both rated for 4500 gal's. (thats why i got 2) double isn't good enough but i am working on more. I treat with bacteria every week. I usually keep the koi in the pond all winter but after loosing 4 this yr have decided to use this summer to set up a holding pond in my basement from now on. The pond is 5 yrs old but last year I made it from 3000 gal to 4500. I have'nt fed them yet this yr as water is still only averaging 60-65 day temps and we could still go down to 30's at night. Any more questions i will be happy to answer i just want my baby's ok....please help.
      Well, depending on the size of the fish, that's quite a large amount for a pond that size. It's usually recommended to have at least 250gal/fish with very good filtration. This would include bottom drains and skimmer(s). I'm curious though, how are you sure about the number of gallons of water in the pond? Did you use a water meter to measure when filling it or ?


      Quote Originally Posted by luv4scjjt View Post
      Were can i get the topical treatments and what is PP? Could i get a list of the names of what you treat with? Im medicine dumb..lol
      To properly treat fish with open wounds, the first thing would be to get a container large enough to place them in for a short while with enough depth to allow just enough water to cover the fish's back, plus a good height of the tub above the water so the fish don't jump out. You will also need either clove oil or a product called MS222. These are both for anesthetic purpose. Once the fish is "under", you can handle the fish and clean the would with something like hydrogen peroxide to remove dead,necrotic tissue. Then apply either Iodine or Betadine to remove infectious bacteria. You can lightly blow on the wound once this is done, as you want to hold the fish above water for a few minutes to allow the treatment to dry. Then, you can return the fish to the quarantine tank. You'll want to hold it upright and preferably against a flow of water to circulate the oxygen/water through the gills until it begins to revive. Then you can release it into the qtank.

      As for treatments for the entire qtank, I mentioned ProFormC or Terminate which are malachite green/formalin combination treatments and also Prazi Pro which is Praziquantil which treats for flukes or other trematode/flat worm species that can be present. You'll find all the necessary "how to" info in the Health Stickies.


      PP is Potassium Permanganate. This is a highly effective oxidizer, but can be quite dangerous if the dosing isn't exact when fish are present in the system. That's why I suggested you remove all the fish and then use this product in a heavier dosage. It will not hurt your plants. In fact it will help kill any parasites living in/on the roots or in the pots. If these plants are planted in actual dirt/soil, I would highly recommend you remove them all, clean/remove all the soil from the roots and then re-plant them in pea gravel with larger rock on top to keep the fish from digging them up. Once you've treated the pond with the PP, I would, again, suggest you drain/clean the pond and filters. I will mention, and assume, these are canister filters like Tetra brand or the like. What they claim and what the filters can actually handle are two distinctly different things. These two filters together, if a pre-filter is used, might actually handle a "koi pond" of about 1000gal. I'm sorry to burst your bubble here, but you've gotten away with some overstocking of fish with quite poor filtration for a few years. Now, it's time to repay Mother Nature for the sins of the past. You also should incorporate at least a retrofit bottom drain as well in the system, otherewise, you will continue to have issues, especially as the fish get bigger. I would also remove/rehome about half of these as well.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net




      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    6. #6
      luv4scjjt is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Mar 2015
      Location
      upstate ny
      Posts
      54
      I am already rehoming about 10-12 of my koi to my neighbor. I just asked him last week if he wanted them. I do however now plan on treating them all before they go now of course. I wouldn't give away sick fish...lol. So far i see 3 fish with the skin issue. All three are scaleless of course. I spent all day today cleaning the pond and getting ready the quarantine tank...Its a 300 gal Rubbermaid to put the 3 with visible issues and the rest are going into a 12 ft intex pool to be treated their. The pond will be hopefully torn down and rebuilt by a professional pond builder. I am going to beg my hubby tonight to just let me hire them to do it right. I start chemo on monday so i am sure i am not going to have the energy to do it right for these poor guys. I just want my gilled kiddo's happy and healthy. When i got the 30 of them i had every intention of downsizing the amount in the pond as they grew but i know their colors change over time so i watched and waited to see who would stay and go..I already had plans on rehoming some. Till this last month i have never had an issue with their health and water has always been clean and healthy. But this winter took a real tole on my guys. I feel terrable but i will do everything in my power to fix it. Thank you guys very much for the info and im sure i will have more questions as this process unfolds. I will keep you up to date on their progress.

    7. #7
      ademink's Avatar
      ademink is offline Senior Member~~Moderator
      is still doing this pond thing.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2005
      Location
      Indianapolis, IN
      Posts
      3,289
      Just let us know how we can help and prayers as you start your chemo!
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member

    8. #8
      luv4scjjt is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Mar 2015
      Location
      upstate ny
      Posts
      54
      Yayyy..My hubby gave me the go ahead for pond rebuild..(he wouldn't have stoped me but i dont like to take advantage of his sweet nature so i ask)..lol...He is my best friend in the world. So tomorrow after doc apt im heading to pond place to set up a quote. What are the most important parts to make sure they install....Or should i start a new thread in construction?

    9. #9
      nmtsaki's Avatar
      nmtsaki is offline Moderator ~ WWKC Secretary
      is hanging in there, waiting for
      warmer weather
       
      Feeling:
      Awesome
       
      Join Date
      May 2007
      Location
      Oak Park, MI
      Posts
      17,433
      Definitely go to the construction forum. A very well planned out pond will save you heartache in the end. I am just out of chemo and radiation (last was December 2014)- so you want as big a pond as possible with the least maintenance, as your hubby will be doing it for awhile. Best wishes on your chemo and treatment. If you feel up to it, keep us posted in chit chat. The prayers and support coming in helped me enormously. I will be praying and sending best wishes for strength and healing while you go through it. It isn't easy, but it is doable.

      Nancy







      Favorite Quotes:
      The greatest pleasure of a dog is that you may make a fool of yourself with him, and not only will he not scold you, but he will make a fool of himself, too. -- Samuel Butler.

      My little dog - a heartbeat at my feet. -- Edith Wharton.

      I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me they are the role model for being alive. -- Gilda Radner

      Yesterday I was a dog. Today I'm a dog. Tomorrow I'll probably still be a dog. Sigh! There's so little hope for advancement. -- Snoopy

    10. #10
      luv4scjjt is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Mar 2015
      Location
      upstate ny
      Posts
      54
      Thanks so much guys. Greatly appreciated. I cant wait till they start digging...lol. I am so far very lucky and am only doing the chemo because it is an aggressive form of cancer but I have no more growths after the main one was removed. So my chemo ( 1yr) will be as a preventative to get any stray cells before they have a chance to anchor. It is not technically chemo although it does the same thing. It is called immunotharopy. I wont loose my hair but it does make you sick. But i am ok with that if it keeps it from coming back. I hope you are doing well with yours. Its definitely a life changer thats for sure.

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    11. #11
      koiman1950's Avatar
      koiman1950 is offline Supporting Member
      is semi retired
       
      Feeling:
      Tired
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2008
      Location
      San Jose, Ca
      Posts
      19,244
      Glad to hear your "chemo" is more proactive than reactive. Hoping for your speedy recovery and healthy final diagnosis.

      As to your pond. PLEASE, don't just hire the first person you talk to. I agree, go and start a new thread in the Construction Forum so we can guide you and provide you some pre-hiring questions to ask of the potential contractor(s). There is probably a ration of 50-1 contractors that have no idea of how to properly build a "koi pond". Most think that ANY body of water can hold koi. The question then becomes, "how long will they stay alive in that type of pond"? We're here to help and possibly provide a couple recommendations for known koi pond builders in your area. We'll be here to support you along the way, to allow you the get the best "bang for your buck" and NOT get RIPPED OFF!!
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net




      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    12. #12
      luv4scjjt is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Mar 2015
      Location
      upstate ny
      Posts
      54
      Thanks guys.. I did start new thread.

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •