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Thread: Goshiki Spawn

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    Goshiki Spawn

    I added five Goshiki culls to a buddies large office pond. By culls I mean I had purchased 25 as a grow out and these were ones I didn't want any longer. They are the only koi in there. He called today and said there were baby orange koi everywhere about 1/4 to 1/2" size. I was thinking about scooping some up and throwing em in some play ponds, just for giggles.

    My question is: What variety types would one expect from an all Goshiki spawn?
    Tim can always be reached at 850-380-7824 or timnye850@gmail.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Appliance Guy View Post
    I added five Goshiki culls to a buddies large office pond. By culls I mean I had purchased 25 as a grow out and these were ones I didn't want any longer. They are the only koi in there. He called today and said there were baby orange koi everywhere about 1/4 to 1/2" size. I was thinking about scooping some up and throwing em in some play ponds, just for giggles.

    My question is: What variety types would one expect from an all Goshiki spawn?

    Goshiki??

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    Quote Originally Posted by New Member View Post
    Goshiki??
    Ok, I walked into that. But what else? He said he didn't see any non-colored ones. I thought that was odd, but he may just not be seeing them yet they are there. I'm going over on Friday and wanted to know what I can expect to see. I've got some places to put some in, so figured would at least check a few out.
    Tim can always be reached at 850-380-7824 or timnye850@gmail.com

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    LadysSolo is offline
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    I've not bred them, but I have been researching koi genetics. Don't they develop beni before sumi/netting, so wouldn't that make sense? Can someone who has bred them before answer this?

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    well, goshiki were made via cross of aka sanke x asagi, or aka bekko x asagi (if my internet sources can be trusted). So the offspring could be sanke, bekko, kohaku, asagi, goshiki, benigoi, karasu... ect.
    Last edited by inazuma28; 04-17-2015 at 09:36 AM.

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    You also get Showa based Goshiki as well !,and Doitsu types as well from Shusui as well as Asagi scaled crosses and back cross .
    This is the types I breed now and Kromo Sanke , and Metallic types also .

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    Holy cow. Goshiki Showa!?! Alright, I'm scooping some up....
    Tim can always be reached at 850-380-7824 or timnye850@gmail.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Appliance Guy View Post
    Holy cow. Goshiki Showa!?! Alright, I'm scooping some up....
    If you really want one of these, ask Russ. Maybe he'll be going to Ostuka's farm. That might be your best option for this variety although others do have a few, but generally, they aren't really bred on purpose, just so you know.
    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
    If you really want one of these, ask Russ. Maybe he'll be going to Ostuka's farm. That might be your best option for this variety although others do have a few, but generally, they aren't really bred on purpose, just so you know.
    Mike, Russ and Ostuka's farm have nothing to do with this thread!

    Just kidding Brother Mike, you pop on in my threads anytime you like. I learn a lot from you and your experience; and appreciate your contributions to various aspects of this forum.

    I really have no interest in purchasing any goshiki showa. Just thought I'd play round with some fry this summer. I surely have zero interest in breeding, so this will give me fingerlings to play with. I'm guessing that I will end up keeping none of them.
    Tim can always be reached at 850-380-7824 or timnye850@gmail.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by inazuma28 View Post
    well, goshiki were made via cross of aka sanke x asagi, or aka bekko x asagi (if my internet sources can be trusted). So the offspring could be sanke, bekko, kohaku, asagi, goshiki, benigoi, karasu... ect.
    Who are these "internet sources" you refer to?
    Mike

    check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



    "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Appliance Guy View Post
    Mike, Russ and Ostuka's farm have nothing to do with this thread!

    Just kidding Brother Mike, you pop on in my threads anytime you like. I learn a lot from you and your experience; and appreciate your contributions to various aspects of this forum.

    I really have no interest in purchasing any goshiki showa. Just thought I'd play round with some fry this summer. I surely have zero interest in breeding, so this will give me fingerlings to play with. I'm guessing that I will end up keeping none of them.
    I thought, seeing how you two get along so well, (not!), I would throw that info out there to ya!LOL.

    I do pop up in the most unsuspecting places don't I? Yes, I will continue, and try to keep it civil as well. Glad you appreciate my postings. I may not be right in every situation, but many times, from the years of study, I've learned a few things. Paying it forward. That's how newer hobbyists learn - from the mistakes of others that have gone before. Kinda like Star Trek, right?lol
    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
    Who are these "internet sources" you refer to?
    http://niigata-nishikigoi.com/content/goshiki-detail

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    It seems like a credable site.... all the other info i have read there seems to line up with other credible sources.... does this info clash with info you have?

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    That was the information I had seen, but you never know, which is why I didn't "stick my neck out" just to get my head cut off!

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    I love the use of Mark's term of 'volitile sumi'. That's says a lot about the instability within different sub-varieties...
    Tim can always be reached at 850-380-7824 or timnye850@gmail.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by inazuma28 View Post
    It seems like a credable site.... all the other info i have read there seems to line up with other credible sources.... does this info clash with info you have?
    Yes, it is a very credible site and Mark's knowledge is quite high. I think there's more generic info there though as most newer varieties stem from the Asagi Magoi lines. I think the more newly defined variety Goshiki that we see today, have much more infusion of Kohaku. Also, if you go back and look again and all that info and pics of famous or very high quality Goshiki, you'll notice that most won awards in the smaller classes, under 60bu/cm. It's a rather rare Goshiki that can maintain it's attributes without much change and also attain a size of 70bu and above. Over 80bu is rather extremely rare with this level of quality.

    Quote Originally Posted by LadysSolo View Post
    That was the information I had seen, but you never know, which is why I didn't "stick my neck out" just to get my head cut off!
    Don't be afraid. Mines grown back MANY times from being wrong. How else do we learn except by "exception"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Appliance Guy View Post
    I love the use of Mark's term of 'volitile sumi'. That's says a lot about the instability within different sub-varieties...
    Tim

    That term can be used in just about every variety that has sumi involved as a main trait. Volatile sumi is a generic trait and does not transcend all offspring from a spawn of a particular parent set. I've had breeders tell me that this fish or that fish has extremely strong sumi genes, and as such, could change dramatically over it's life. I have a couple fish that do this nearly seasonally. To get a really good Goshiki and have it maintain it's vibrancy, you have to look through 1000s to find ONE. And this is not just within "sub-varieties" as you elude to.

    So, could you please explain what you mean when you say "it says a lot about the instability within different sub-varities"? Sometimes, the written word doesn't really explain what a poster is trying to say. Thanks!
    Mike

    check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



    "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
    Yes, it is a very credible site and Mark's knowledge is quite high. I think there's more generic info there though as most newer varieties stem from the Asagi Magoi lines. I think the more newly defined variety Goshiki that we see today, have much more infusion of Kohaku. Also, if you go back and look again and all that info and pics of famous or very high quality Goshiki, you'll notice that most won awards in the smaller classes, under 60bu/cm. It's a rather rare Goshiki that can maintain it's attributes without much change and also attain a size of 70bu and above. Over 80bu is rather extremely rare with this level of quality.



    Don't be afraid. Mines grown back MANY times from being wrong. How else do we learn except by "exception"?



    Tim

    That term can be used in just about every variety that has sumi involved as a main trait. Volatile sumi is a generic trait and does not transcend all offspring from a spawn of a particular parent set. I've had breeders tell me that this fish or that fish has extremely strong sumi genes, and as such, could change dramatically over it's life. I have a couple fish that do this nearly seasonally. To get a really good Goshiki and have it maintain it's vibrancy, you have to look through 1000s to find ONE. And this is not just within "sub-varieties" as you elude to.

    So, could you please explain what you mean when you say "it says a lot about the instability within different sub-varities"? Sometimes, the written word doesn't really explain what a poster is trying to say. Thanks!

    Sure, it'll expound on it. When we look at Goshiki we can see that kuro and nezu styles are 'you get what you see', where as the more refined mameshibori and kindai styles there is more opportunity for potential for that particular sub-variety. Goshiki is a short lived cut flower anyway, and it seems that the more refined it is, the less shelf life it has. With Goshiki there will be more variance and volitily among the spawn. As a variety becomes more refined it becomes more controled and predictable. I believe the older varieties that have more sumi are more controled and predictable compared to a newer style.
    Tim can always be reached at 850-380-7824 or timnye850@gmail.com

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    Well, I guess I get where you're going with this, but I don't agree. It simply has to do with genetics and water. And, no, it's not just "what you see is what you get" with regard to the Kuro Goshiki especially. Again, genetics, but I've seen many more Kuro Goshiki where the hi patterns become overrun with black speckles or uneven reticulation, thus rendering the koi valueless with regard to show standards.

    I have several Goshiki between the ages of 3 and 12 years old. The best of these 5 are the youngest Kanno Goshiki and the oldest which is a Ochiba Goshiki from Hosokai. Just looking at her again today am amazed that she has been able to retain her clean beni for all these years! And THAT is a sub-variety of Goshiki. The rest you mention are simply displaying genetic attributes applied by various breeders to improve the line of Goshiki to allow for a "cleaner" look and to keep the sumi from encroaching into the beni plates more consistently. Goshiki are not any more "short-lived" as a variety than any other variety of koi available. You just have to know how to look for quality and maintain it.
    Mike

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    "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    4 months later . And I'm trolling Goshiki .. But isn't it possible since its a office - some random just dropped some domestic in there?

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    any pics

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