• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Results 1 to 20 of 20

    Thread: s/g VS bead filter

    1. #1
      sick1166 is offline Junior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2014
      Location
      palm beach florida
      Posts
      22

      s/g VS bead filter

      I have a zakki seive, 5500 GPH pump
      I need either the bead filter or a s/g for fines
      And polish water
      I like the bead filter for the pressure back to the waterfall
      S&G filter gravity feeding back to the pond would be difficult for me but it be done is there a is there a significant
      between the bead filter and snd

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    2. #2
      KoiKid55 is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2013
      Location
      Sherborn MA
      Posts
      773
      I think the key points would be 1. price 2. ease of use being that one is pressurized and 3. ease of cleaning which I think is pretty equal. Thats my take but I would have the experts weigh in.
      Well I messed that one up
      BULKHEAD Y U NO WORK



      Music Makes Life Kenny Chesney Zac Brow Skrilex Enimem


    3. #3
      Appliance Guy's Avatar
      Appliance Guy is offline Senior Member
      is Just chillin with koi...
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2011
      Location
      Pensacola, FL
      Posts
      1,088
      The S/G and the Bead Filter are two different animals. Being that you are specifically looking for fines removal, you want the S/G- no doubt about. The S/G will remove fines to about 60micron or so, depending on the makeup of the media. With weekly aggressive flushing, you will have a fines filter. If you slow down the water and flush every other week, it kinda becomes a bio and fines filter. You can adjust the water flow and frequency to meet your needs. Most folks push up to 2000gp per unit. I personally ush quite a bit more. I flush my S/G's at least weekly, occassionally twice weekly depending on pollen/waste/whatever. The bead filter is a bio as primary and filter secondary. Definately not fines removal on a bead filter, because as it's running the colloiding beads will 'scrub off' some biofilm, leaving you with some fines back into the system.

      Hands down- go with the S/G.
      Tim can always be reached at 850-380-7824 or timnye850@gmail.com

    4. #4
      powerman's Avatar
      powerman is offline Supporting Member
      is Still koi keeping
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Dec 2006
      Location
      anacortes washington
      Posts
      4,148
      The advantage bead filter will give you fines filtration about the same as a sand and gravel filter.. both filter ideas have plusses and minuses.
      bead filter, plusses: you can put it anywhere out of site if you want and the pressurized return already works with how your pond is plumbed.. easy to backwash and the minuses are it costs a lot more than your sand and gravel filter option and takes a bigger pump typically than you would need for your sand and gravel filters..
      sand and gravel filters, plusses: cost is much lower compared to a proper bead filter because you can do it yourself or get a birdman kit and do most of it yourself, easy to backwash but you will need a spa blower or a strong shop vac and you can run a couple of sand and gravel filters on a lower head pump than you would need for the bead filter. minuses, the gravity returns if your pond is already designed for pressurized returns and hiding the sand and gravel filter barrels because to gravity back they have to be taller than the pond by a couple of feet minimum

      I run an advantage bead filter and two sand and gravel filters on my main pond now and will have both as well on the new pond so I'm not against either one of them as a filter option.. the reason I do both is the sand and gravel filters give me a place to flow water through a buffering material such as lithaqua and the bead filters give me pressurized returns on my main pond and will be a pre-filter for the shower on my new pond.

      note that a lot of so called bead filters use a flow through type media similar to k-1 or a tubular media as opposed to actual beads making them less of a fines filter but more focused on the biological action. The advantage bead filter uses beads and filters down to about 30 microns.. I've used an advantage 15 for years on my main pond in addition to all the other filtration I have and I also bought an advantage 15 for the new pond..
      DAN







    5. #5
      koiman1950's Avatar
      koiman1950 is offline Supporting Member
      is semi retired
       
      Feeling:
      Tired
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2008
      Location
      San Jose, Ca
      Posts
      19,244
      One thing of note that is extremely important for the hobbyist looking for "easy" maintenance. Bead filters do need a blower to dislodge the particulates from a true bead filter and as such, REQUIRE faithful maintenance/cleaning routines to work properly. I've seen too many instances of folks who are not told this when they purchase a true bead filter. Many times, they're told that they only have to backwash it once a MONTH! That's ridiculous as many here can attest to. One customer I visited was told they only had to clean it once a YEAR! Yeah, right. When he told me this, the first thing I did was remove the valve head. When I took the head off the smell nearly killed us both!lol The beads were so packed that I literally had to take a 2"x4" to them to get them somewhat broken up. It was so bad the whole filter had to be scrapped and a new one purchased. So, if you're reading this, and contemplating using one of these, just make sure you understand that they need to be cleaned AT LEAST weekly or more often depending on the system. Also, PLEASE, don't think of these filters as the only part you need. Remember, a koi pond is a SYSTEM and this should only be a part of the filtration. Dan is a very seasoned hobbyist and understands the needs of these filter units for them to function as they are designed.

      Personally, I've been using an Ultima II 20,000 on my pond for 12 years with no issues concerning fines filtration AND I don't need a blower to clean it. We've also installed over 20 of the Ultima units of varying sizes on customer ponds, solely for their mechanical function, along with other components for bio and heavy solids removal.

      Dan also provides some good solid/honest insight into the differences between s/g filters and pressurized units. It just depends on what the best "fit" would be for a specific install.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net




      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    6. #6
      richtoybox's Avatar
      richtoybox is offline Administrator
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Awesome
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Sandston, VA
      Posts
      14,345
      Mike is right on the bead filter needing cleaning, but that is true of any filter. The up flow bogs are notorious, because people are told that they don't need any maintenance, but take one apart that hasn't had maintenance and see what you have. As for bead, I have used three different varieties of the upflow, what I will call true bead filters, one being the SacKoi 15 like Powerman. They do a super job with fines, because the beads fit together rather closely, and the longer it goes between cleanings the more efficient it gets due to clogging of the pores, and this causes the flow to fall off noticeably. The biggest difference in the two is price. I have my filters inside a yard shed near the pond and don't have to hide the barrels that would be feeding my waterfall.

      As for statements that the bead filter is primarily bio and not for fines, or primarily fines and not for bio, mine do both jobs and do them well, but the 4000 gallon pond has two bead filters that are rated at filtering 19000 gallons of ponds. One word of caution with enclosed filters, if the power goes out, oxygen levels will deplete rapidly by the bio bacteria that form on all surfaces exposed to water, and will go anaerobic, creating hydrogen sulfide gas pretty quickly, so they need to be backwashed on restart.

      If you get a true bead filter, you want one with a blower to shake the beads to get them clean. Some of the early models were made without the blower, then they were offered with optional at additional cost blower units. Now I am not sure of the availability of the old no blower models.
      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    7. #7
      sick1166 is offline Junior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2014
      Location
      palm beach florida
      Posts
      22
      I was looking into the gtek aquabead 4.25 low head .
      and adding a shower
      Last edited by sick1166; 03-26-2015 at 11:23 PM.

    8. #8
      stephen's Avatar
      stephen is offline Koiphen Member
      WWKC Lifetime Charter Diamond Member #2
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2004
      Location
      Koiphenville
      Posts
      32,139
      Bead filter with blower

    9. #9
      DaKid Koi's Avatar
      DaKid Koi is offline Da Royal Prince of Baddness Maddness
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2004
      Location
      Berkley , Massachusetts
      Posts
      3,292
      Stephen ; Bead filter with blower
      You just gave me an Idea ,
      WE are both Cancer Survivor. "Together we fight the fight" - "We are Strong "- " We Are Survivors "


    10. #10
      stephen's Avatar
      stephen is offline Koiphen Member
      WWKC Lifetime Charter Diamond Member #2
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2004
      Location
      Koiphenville
      Posts
      32,139
      Quote Originally Posted by DaKid Koi View Post
      You just gave me an Idea ,
      What?????

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    11. #11
      DaKid Koi's Avatar
      DaKid Koi is offline Da Royal Prince of Baddness Maddness
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2004
      Location
      Berkley , Massachusetts
      Posts
      3,292
      how hard would it be to add a blower to one, wait on 2- 6000 bead filter to come in but no blower
      WE are both Cancer Survivor. "Together we fight the fight" - "We are Strong "- " We Are Survivors "


    12. #12
      stephen's Avatar
      stephen is offline Koiphen Member
      WWKC Lifetime Charter Diamond Member #2
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2004
      Location
      Koiphenville
      Posts
      32,139
      Quote Originally Posted by DaKid Koi View Post
      how hard would it be to add a blower to one, wait on 2- 6000 bead filter to come in but no blower
      Haven't seen you in 11 years Kid, 2004 Charlotte.

      Not that hard. Some PVC connections and the cost of the blowers of course.

    13. #13
      DaKid Koi's Avatar
      DaKid Koi is offline Da Royal Prince of Baddness Maddness
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2004
      Location
      Berkley , Massachusetts
      Posts
      3,292
      Cool Thanks ........Hello Stephen , Ya been to long , yep Charlotte Show and then at ur place ,
      WE are both Cancer Survivor. "Together we fight the fight" - "We are Strong "- " We Are Survivors "


    14. #14
      Ramzy's Avatar
      Ramzy is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2010
      Location
      Springfield pa
      Posts
      348
      Quote Originally Posted by DaKid Koi View Post
      how hard would it be to add a blower to one, wait on 2- 6000 bead filter to come in but no blower
      Blower kits available if interested.
      Thanks!


      Sent from my iPhone

    15. #15
      DaKid Koi's Avatar
      DaKid Koi is offline Da Royal Prince of Baddness Maddness
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2004
      Location
      Berkley , Massachusetts
      Posts
      3,292
      What included -price- shipping need more infor.
      WE are both Cancer Survivor. "Together we fight the fight" - "We are Strong "- " We Are Survivors "


    16. #16
      Appliance Guy's Avatar
      Appliance Guy is offline Senior Member
      is Just chillin with koi...
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2011
      Location
      Pensacola, FL
      Posts
      1,088
      With any system- be it bead, S/G, mats, corn shucks, dirt, floss, brushes or a tiny net- the entire key is frequent cleaning. Don't believe that a bead filter will be the end all solution for water clarity. It's not. It's the frequency of cleaning that matters. Now having said that- a bead filter is an energy hog. And the equipment ain't cheap either. There's an old thread on another board titled- "Bead Filters- The American Curse?" Hmm, wonder how/why that got started....
      Tim can always be reached at 850-380-7824 or timnye850@gmail.com

    17. #17
      jimc2142003 is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jan 2013
      Location
      New Jersey
      Posts
      825
      I use both. Skimmer to SG filter. Very efficient at removing fines. Even though the pump grinds up stuff the filter catches it. The other circuit is bottom drain to Zakki Sieve to bead filter to Zakki shower. The zakki catches larger solids, the bead does a decent job of removing fines. The cermedia was actually pretty clean after a full season of use. I would guess the bead filter would not be performing as well on fines if there wasn't a sieve in front of it. If I was only looking to improve fines SG is the best - at least on my set up.

    18. #18
      Ramzy's Avatar
      Ramzy is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2010
      Location
      Springfield pa
      Posts
      348
      Quote Originally Posted by DaKid Koi View Post
      What included -price- shipping need more infor.
      Morning you can go with 1.5' or 2"
      Either threaded or slip female connection with a 1.5hp blower or 2"
      $325 - $395

      Based on blower size. If you have a blower already on any other bead filters you can use that too.

    19. #19
      sick1166 is offline Junior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Nov 2014
      Location
      palm beach florida
      Posts
      22
      Silencer air supply blowers 25 plus years old and still going on mine
      these are the best blowers on the market and only $175.00 for 2hp all sizes comes with check valve any hp if you search you can find a little cheaper

    20. #20
      sandthemall's Avatar
      sandthemall is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2012
      Location
      La Crescenta, CA
      Posts
      745
      It's not a true bead filter but I really like my ultima II 10,000. i use it on a 4k gallon pond as bio/mechanical beween a sieve and shower. I really like the downflow layout. Unfiltered water must go through a deep bed of sinking media. Media isn't churning so doesn't wear over the years. Think of it as an enclosed, flushable Eazy in a Nexus and you will have a good idea of how it operates. There are a lot of people who see the youtube video and think that it doesn't function well...that all the media needs to curn in filtration mode...it's a different dynamic. And it doesn't need a blower.

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •