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  • Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
    Results 21 to 36 of 36

    Thread: Aquascape good or bad?

    1. #21
      powerman's Avatar
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      Rhuester, if your friend builds these ponds for a living and wants to help you build one for the price of a few beers plus parts, I say go for it and have fun with it. If you are interested in growing out some koi to be big, or seeing this end of the hobby, look around for a local koi club and find out when their next show is and go to that. You also could go to a club meeting and just let them know that you want to build a pond and could you possibly look at some of their ponds and koi. It might be an eye opener for you.

      It would be great to jump into this hobby right from the get go with a purpose built koi pond. most of us haven't and I suspect if most of us would of known how much money we would of spent on this hobby we would of run away as fast as our legs would take us.... we would of then missed out as well on the joys of koi keeping and the friend ships that only fanatics that share a common obsession can have. Kind of like the love of one drunk for another.

      it's not the usual way into this hobby to jump right in with a proper koi pond, some of us do, but that is pretty rare. So start with your water feature, and some gold fish with your bog and see how you like it. I actually wish I had the space for something like that, not to replace my koi ponds but as a separate thing. The clean outs might be a lot of work and hydrogen sulphide stink isn't a pleasant thing but the trickling sounds of a little stream and the flowers on a lilly pad and some bright orange little fish darting around might just make it all worth it.

      To sum up, I'm just saying I don't want to scare you away from the hobby and I'm sure from all the posts on here you can see there are some strong feelings about aquascape ponds full of rocks but we all start somewhere and it's hard for us to remember that.

      happy ponding
      DAN







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    2. #22
      powerman's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
      Hi

      There are probably better ways but you can make it work, if you stock lightly and you are willing to work also. I am Mary's husband and she made it work.
      See how lucky you are?
      DAN







    3. #23
      Rhuester is offline Member
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      So here is the deal I am thinking half and half. After all the whole purpose of this to start is a single turtle im not sure he can create but so much waste. But be that as it may i want to be forward looking as I would love some Goldie's in their with him. I think yes on the bog filter incorporating some of sandman's air cleaning for the s/g and some drain ports. I think the bog offers aesthetics I want. But I'm with everyone here - no rocks in the main pond and a retro bottom drain plugged in at the waterline in case of issues. Again im not raising koi just a turtle to start and some goldfish.

      Here is a great twist I think that the 2 feet or so between the bog and the pond will be a fabulous spot for the turtle to roam.

      I do have one question. I'm gonna put out a new design and im curious if a 2 inch retro bottom drain could gravity feed a line in a bog? I'm lookin for it to be an 8 foot run or so in the bog and the falls to be physically about 6 to 8 inches above the pond surface. Will a gravity line push that? There will be a second pump fed line as well.

    4. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rhuester View Post
      I do have one question. I'm gonna put out a new design and im curious if a 2 inch retro bottom drain could gravity feed a line in a bog? I'm lookin for it to be an 8 foot run or so in the bog and the falls to be physically about 6 to 8 inches above the pond surface. Will a gravity line push that? There will be a second pump fed line as well.
      A 2 inch bottom drain won't flow much in a gravity feed situation. Reading what you said, I am confused. Gravity will not feed upward. For water to go up hill, a pump is needed. I would go with a 3 inch drain to a settlement chamber to a pump.
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    5. #25
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      Right so my picture will explain more but in the meantime, the retro b/d exits just below the water line and makes a short semi circle passing through a coarse filter box and the enter the 8 foot bog filter pipe. The pipe itself is always below the waterline I just wonder if it will be enough flow for it to wick up through the bog filter. The bog filter calls for 12 inches of substrate and I would say that 6 inches of that will be under the waterline and the rest above in Order to generate the waterfalls. There will also be a pump fed line from the skimmer. So I am hoping both lines will contribute and the gravity line won't have much trouble. But I don't know if it the head pressure would prevent flow or not.

    6. #26
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      If the water in the bog is higher than the pond, then the flow will be from the bog back down the pipe to the pond. Gravity doesn't let water flow up hill without a pump, except in thin layers, due to capillary surface tension effects. A straw will lift water about 1/8 tp 1/4 inch above a glass of water, but if the straw is inserted such that it is only 1/16 inch, it will not have a flow coming over the top of the straw going back to the glass of water.
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    7. #27
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      LOL see how never having done something causes one to lose all common sense. I get it now that was a DOH moment. I swear I'm not an idiot but sure feel like one at the moment. Thanks for shakin that one outta me.

    8. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by powerman View Post
      Rhuester, if your friend builds these ponds for a living and wants to help you build one for the price of a few beers plus parts, I say go for it and have fun with it. If you are interested in growing out some koi to be big, or seeing this end of the hobby, look around for a local koi club and find out when their next show is and go to that. You also could go to a club meeting and just let them know that you want to build a pond and could you possibly look at some of their ponds and koi. It might be an eye opener for you.

      It would be great to jump into this hobby right from the get go with a purpose built koi pond. most of us haven't and I suspect if most of us would of known how much money we would of spent on this hobby we would of run away as fast as our legs would take us.... we would of then missed out as well on the joys of koi keeping and the friend ships that only fanatics that share a common obsession can have. Kind of like the love of one drunk for another.

      it's not the usual way into this hobby to jump right in with a proper koi pond, some of us do, but that is pretty rare. So start with your water feature, and some gold fish with your bog and see how you like it. I actually wish I had the space for something like that, not to replace my koi ponds but as a separate thing. The clean outs might be a lot of work and hydrogen sulphide stink isn't a pleasant thing but the trickling sounds of a little stream and the flowers on a lilly pad and some bright orange little fish darting around might just make it all worth it.

      To sum up, I'm just saying I don't want to scare you away from the hobby and I'm sure from all the posts on here you can see there are some strong feelings about aquascape ponds full of rocks but we all start somewhere and it's hard for us to remember that.

      happy ponding
      Sounds like reasonable advise, I gave about a 1500 gallon "water feature" with a waterfall into a stream which splits and drops water into a pond.
      The pond is full of plants and primarily gold fish. The are four dozen feeder goldfish which cost me $10 (total), and about 10 koi I paid $2-$3 each.
      I have a retro bottom drain, pumping through a pressure/uv filter and the water is crystal clear. The goldfish have grown to about 5", while the Koi have grown to about 5-7".


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    9. #29
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      I may be missing something, but your pond doesn't look large enough for koi.

    10. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by DarleneD View Post
      I may be missing something, but your pond doesn't look large enough for koi.
      After following the discussions here, I agree - It isn't large enough for Koi, but I bought 10 2" Koi for $25 at a pet store, just to see if they would do OK. If they grow too large, I will give them away. I still enjoy sitting out there with a cool drink and a cigar, watching the activities in the pond, and listening to the water; and since it is in the front of the house, it has become the gathering spot for the neighbors. If I lose a couple 20 cent goldfish, it's not too traumatic.

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    11. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rhuester View Post
      my friend at work hears me talking about a pond and tells me his buddy builds them for a living. I get on the phone with him and he basically say my whole pond idea on filtration and everything is not needed. Basically just a skimmer and a bog filter will cover a pond this size.

      Sounds to me his way is a more natural type setup. Rocks all in in it plants to do the filtering and so on. But there seems to be a bunch more maintenance this way. He made that sound simple cause it's what he does for a living but I'm not paying for a spring clean out every year. I can do it myself but no idea if it's some huge process or what.

      Any pro and con type feedback on this? Am I going way overboard with b/d and s/g filters. I don't ever intend some huge fish load is it possible he could be right?
      This is a very interesting topic, and somewhat timely. This past weekend I overheard a very interesting conversation between two competing vendors during the 2015 San Diego Koi Show. Apparently over the past few years one of these vendors had completely shifted his business over to the Aquascape service model. This Aquascape vendor stated that he would not even acknowledge the difference between an “Aquascape style” rock-bottomed water garden and a “true” Koi pond (no rocks with bottom drains) when consulting with his customers. “Most people do not understand that when it comes to building a natural pond it is all about achieving balance,” the Aquascape vendor said. I found his comments to be somewhat comical considering his advertising openly boasts that over half his pond installations are actually rebuilds. Some of our most loyal customers are also water gardeners and there is absolutely nothing wrong with building or owning a water garden. Water gardening is a great hobby and we have seen several water gardens over the years that were absolutely beautiful. But having done literally hundreds of Koi rescues over the years while seeing first-hand the various Koi health issues that commonly occur when a pond owner overstocks a shallow water garden with several Koi fish based on incorrect advice they were given by a “certified” pond builder, I could never in good conscious recommend building a shallow water garden to anyone that is seriously interested in raising large Koi. Sure, you may be able to get away with it for a while with smaller Koi. But once the Koi grow – and they always do -- problems are bound to occur. Goldfish, on the other hand, can thrive in water gardens. Hope this helps and happy ponding…

    12. #32
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      On one of my facebook pond groups there is a discussion about watergardens (aguascape) vs koi ponds that I started and I now realize that people don't get the difference, quite a few say well mine is both, I have Koi in my planted rock bottom pond, and it blows my mind how many people say, "How do you have a balanced pond without rocks?" I agree that watergardens and aquascape ponds have their place, they are beautiful, but they are not a good long term environment for Koi. Some even said, without rocks where does the waste go to break down? Ugh! I've learned that I can't educate everyone or change their minds and this may work for some people, but from experience, mine and others, I have seen more failures than successes with watergarden set-ups for Koi. Unfortunately, I feel most of the misinformation about the capabilities of watergarden type ponds is by builders of these ponds and people trust them and follow them like a television evangelist.

      Cheryl

    13. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by Cheryl View Post
      On one of my facebook pond groups there is a discussion about watergardens (aguascape) vs koi ponds that I started and I now realize that people don't get the difference, quite a few say well mine is both, I have Koi in my planted rock bottom pond, and it blows my mind how many people say, "How do you have a balanced pond without rocks?" I agree that watergardens and aquascape ponds have their place, they are beautiful, but they are not a good long term environment for Koi. Some even said, without rocks where does the waste go to break down? Ugh! I've learned that I can't educate everyone or change their minds and this may work for some people, but from experience, mine and others, I have seen more failures than successes with watergarden set-ups for Koi. Unfortunately, I feel most of the misinformation about the capabilities of watergarden type ponds is by builders of these ponds and people trust them and follow them like a television evangelist.

      Cheryl
      One of the best methods I've used to highlight the importance of bottom drains is to put it in terms most people will understand. Go 3 days without flushing your toilet at home. Now tell me the best way to get the water in the toilet clean again.

    14. #34
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      Do we with koi ponds add biological additions to our ponds. Most of those biological additions are anaerobic type bacteria that work great in a septic tank, which is what most find their pond is once they start removing the rock and get to the sludge on the bottom. Even a septic tank needs pumping periodically.
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    15. #35
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      As a relative newbie myself, I can appreciate how hard it is to figure out the answer to your question or even figure out what questions you need to ask to figure out what is the right answer *for you*. For one person in one situation, the answer is Aquascape; for another person the right answer is koi pond with fancy filtration. I sort of accidentally ended up with an Aquascape-type pond, but I have to say I'm glad someone talked me out of including a bog because it sounds like that makes the clean-up *much* worse.

      It takes a lot of research to understand all the plusses and minuses of both designs, and some soul-searching and yes research to figure out what your own priorities are. As a start, you might want to peruse the Our Koi and Ponds thread, here. It has a lot of nice photos to give you an idea at least what the various ponds might look like.

      Good luck, and welcome!

      -Tory

    16. #36
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      Luckily I have been researching this for nearly a year and though this fella I met verbalized the aqua scape type mentality I was already aware that they had to be a ton more maintenance. Having had my turtle in aquariums since 1997 I am keenly familiar with "mucking" things out. And it's an easy hop over to OMG 2000 gallons of it - lol.

      I think it was Cheryl who summed it up for me or made the distinction clear. One mindset is about the pond and the other is about the fish. Mine is about the turtle and I believe that I have struck upon a design that is going to allow me to meet in the middle. I don't think the maintenance is going to be too taxing and I think it incorporates a good deal of the pond aesthetics so to speak.

      It is my plan tonight or tomorrow to post it so yall can tell me what you think.

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