• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
    Results 1 to 20 of 27

    Thread: Review plans for first pond?

    1. #1
      SDTurtle is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2010
      Location
      San Diego
      Posts
      38

      Review plans for first pond?

      This will be my first pond - I found a turtle in my yard last year and he's been living with some goldfish and some plants in a rubbermaid tub since; I'd like to give him a better home, add a turtle or two and more goldfish, maybe a koi depending on if the pond can support it...

      I've just been reading up on this site and others, other than that I have no experience. The pond will be about 9x7 and average two feet deep, which is about 850 gallons. These plans might be overkill for a small pond, but I like making stuff so I don't really mind overkill, especially if it means I get a nice low-maintenance pond. On the other hand, my ballpark cost estimate is over $2000 now, which is more than I was thinking; and I don't really like spending money if it doesn't add much...

      Here's a picture of the yard:

      Name:  YardPic.JPG
Views: 670
Size:  173.0 KB

      I'm in coastal San Diego and this is pretty much in full sun, so I plan on having a lot of plants in the water to provide shade. The ground slopes slightly up to the right in the pic, like the right side of the pond area is about three inches higher than the left - I plan on having a short cinderblock collar (like maybe one or two blocks high) that will be about 6 inches above ground on the left and 3 inches above ground on the right, with water level a few inches below the top. The pond will be 3 feet deep up near the top of the picture and shallower down near the bottom (there’s gas line there so it has to be shallow). I’m planning on putting the pump and some filter stuff behind the planter box in the upper right hand part of the picture. There’s about 8-10 feet along the length of the planter, but not that much space in the other direction (like maybe 2.5 feet between the planter and sprinkler lines that are in front of the plants against the fence). The falls will be small (like 6-9 inches wide) and maybe six inches to a foot above the surface of the water. Here’s a schematic-type view of the filters and plumbing I had planned:

      Name:  PondSchematic.jpg
Views: 666
Size:  55.1 KB

      I was planning on stuff like this for the filters, but maybe using something smaller than 55-gallon barrels.
      S&G filter: https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...-Gravel-Filter
      Settlement Chamber: https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...chamber-design
      Bio: https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...uid-Bed-Filter

      I figured about 5 feet of friction head using 2'' pipe. The pump would be right around the same height as the pond surface, depending on how deep I wanted to dig and place it.

      For the pump, etc… I was think of the stuff listed below. These choicess aren't really based on much, it was just so I could get an idea of costs, and so I could ask if I’m picking stuff that’s inappropriate for some reason:
      Pump – Evolution ES3500
      Bottom Drain - 3’’ Koi ToiletII
      UV - 15 watts – Aqua ultraviolet

      If anyone wants to provide any advice, comments, etc... I'd really appreciate it. I've got a couple weeks off before new years, so I'm hoping to get my plans and equipment set up and then start digging around then.
      Thanks a lot in advance!

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    2. #2
      Cheryl's Avatar
      Cheryl is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2012
      Location
      Kent, WA
      Posts
      2,846
      Welcome to Koiphen, it sounds like you have been doing your research. I wouldn't recommend any Koi for this set up, goldfish will be just fine, for Koi it would need to be deeper and larger. What kind of turtle do you have?

      Cheryl
      Last edited by Cheryl; 11-02-2014 at 08:27 PM.

    3. #3
      pearlharborday is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2008
      Location
      SpringHill,Fl.
      Posts
      5,303
      some like the UV after the bio with a bypass.......and get the 25wt Aqua ,,it's basically the same size and not much more..and if you want overkill...go to the 57watt,,,it is the exact same dimensions as the 25 wt,,,but has a high output bulb.....that would be route for reptile/fish mix........you'll be able to knock out bacterias like salmonella etc. and only a few more bucks than the 25wt....

      now on pump,,if you are looking for those flow rates in your drawings,,,and ES3500 will not do it.....they are rated at 5 ft. of head....by the time you go threw valves,T.elbows etc.....you'll be lucky to get 2000gph.
      a 4500 or 5500 will be closer to the GPH you want when considering head pressure

    4. #4
      SDTurtle is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2010
      Location
      San Diego
      Posts
      38
      I think he's a northern map turtle. One of the nice things, for me, is that they stay pretty small - he's about six inches or so and that's as big as he'll get, I believe.

      Regarding the pump - is there something I'm doing incorrectly? I estimated the pipes/fittings I'd use - I came to about 5 feet of head for like 70 feet of pipe, 8 90 degree fittings, a couple valves and a couple tees, all using 2 inch pipe at the flow rates indicated in the drawing. So maybe I underestimated that by however much, plus the waterfall will be about a foot above the pond. The ES3500 looks like its rated for about 3,000 gph at 7 feet of head. My plan had a total flow of 2,00 gph, so it seems like I'd have a fair margin there. Is there something I'm missing?

    5. #5
      pearlharborday is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2008
      Location
      SpringHill,Fl.
      Posts
      5,303
      Quote Originally Posted by SDTurtle View Post
      I think he's a northern map turtle. One of the nice things, for me, is that they stay pretty small - he's about six inches or so and that's as big as he'll get, I believe.

      Regarding the pump - is there something I'm doing incorrectly? I estimated the pipes/fittings I'd use - I came to about 5 feet of head for like 70 feet of pipe, 8 90 degree fittings, a couple valves and a couple tees, all using 2 inch pipe at the flow rates indicated in the drawing. So maybe I underestimated that by however much, plus the waterfall will be about a foot above the pond. The ES3500 looks like its rated for about 3,000 gph at 7 feet of head. My plan had a total flow of 2,00 gph, so it seems like I'd have a fair margin there. Is there something I'm missing?
      T's add a foot + of head each hard 90's can add 1/2ft per elbow and compound when you add more///////each 10ft. of straight pipe adds head pressure also..........valves also add to head ft and vary from manufacturer...........your most likely looking at 15-20 ft. of head..and will running the ES 3500 close to shut off range............you'll need a 4500-5500

    6. #6
      birdman's Avatar
      birdman is offline DIY Savant
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2005
      Location
      Palm Springs, CA.
      Posts
      21,812
      Over all I like your design. I would go with the EVO 55 UV, overkill, yes. But so cost effective in the long run. I have done more small ponds than I can count and The ES 3500 going through a UV to a S/G filter should work great.

    7. #7
      richtoybox's Avatar
      richtoybox is offline Administrator
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Awesome
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Sandston, VA
      Posts
      14,345
      Pearl, I think you are misinterpreting the head losses. Where a T may add a foot, it is a foot of pipe length not a foot of head. The head losses that I have seen are generally expressed as so many feet of head per 100 feet of pipe at a given flow rate. Very few Sequence pumps would be able to be used for ponds based on the interpretation that you have stated. I may be wrong on the bead filters but most have said it is the head that adds the pressure and they list it as 10 feet, and I really think that it is 10 feet of pipe length for purposes of calculating head, as the head would be dependent on flow, much more than any other factor.
      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    8. #8
      pearlharborday is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2008
      Location
      SpringHill,Fl.
      Posts
      5,303
      Quote Originally Posted by RichToyBox View Post
      Pearl, I think you are misinterpreting the head losses. Where a T may add a foot, it is a foot of pipe length not a foot of head. The head losses that I have seen are generally expressed as so many feet of head per 100 feet of pipe at a given flow rate. Very few Sequence pumps would be able to be used for ponds based on the interpretation that you have stated. I may be wrong on the bead filters but most have said it is the head that adds the pressure and they list it as 10 feet, and I really think that it is 10 feet of pipe length for purposes of calculating head, as the head would be dependent on flow, much more than any other factor.
      multi port heads do add a min of 10ft. of head and T's do and 1 ft. of head pressure........Lim always said ,,always count on min of 10ft of head and go from there. that's why Y's and sweeps and flex pipe is so useful

    9. #9
      richtoybox's Avatar
      richtoybox is offline Administrator
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Awesome
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Sandston, VA
      Posts
      14,345
      Looking at Aquatic Eco "Tech Talk 61" on page 229 of the current Pentair AES catalog, the head losses are calculated as feet per 100 feet of pipe at various flow rates in gpm. Beside the table is the explanation that "2. Next, find the friction loss caused by the fittings. Pleas note that the firicton loss depends on the fitting diameter. A standard 1.5" elbow is equal to about 4 foot of pipe, long elbows, sweeps and 45 elbows are equal to baout 2 foot of pipe, straight through a T is about 3 foot of pipe and a 90 turn through a T about 9' of pipe."

      It does not say that each fitting has a head loss, but an equivalent pipe length.
      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

    10. #10
      lowfi is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2009
      Location
      San Diego, California
      Posts
      96
      Where is SD are you located? Im in leucadia!

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    11. #11
      SDTurtle is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2010
      Location
      San Diego
      Posts
      38
      Quote Originally Posted by lowfi View Post
      Where is SD are you located? Im in leucadia!
      I'm just East of Mission Bay.

    12. #12
      SDTurtle is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2010
      Location
      San Diego
      Posts
      38
      I ended up changing the design a little bit. On Birdman's advice I scrapped the SC and bio filter and used two S&G filters (also, in retrospect, there's no way I could have fit 55 gallon barrels in the area I had planned). I did put in tub for a pre-filter where I had originally planned the SC. I also used an EVO55 for UV. I ordered an ES 4500 but they sent an ES 5500 which I'll restrict after the pump.

      I was hoping to be further along at this point, but the short days and cold mornings haven't been real conducive to me working. Everything is going well, so thanks to everyone who's contributed to this forum; it's been the source of almost all my information. Also thanks to Birdman for helping with some lingering questions.

      I had about a week off around thanksgiving, so I started moving stuff around and digging. Here's my yard before I started:Name:  2014-11-22 Yard BeforeSmall.jpg
Views: 379
Size:  156.2 KB

      At that point it hadn't rained in a while. About a foot down I hit a layer dirt enough that I was breaking it up with a breaker hammer, then picking up the golf-tennis ball sized pieces by hand. I dug the filter pit and about a foot deep of the pond, then decided to wait for the following week's rain. After it rained I dug the rough area of the pond in like four hours or something, I got real lucky with that. I had a couple weeks off around Christmas/New years. So I got the pond dug:

      Name:  2014-12-21 Pond DugSmall.jpg
Views: 404
Size:  119.3 KB

      It should be right around 1,000 gallons - 3.5 feet deep, 9 feet long and 7 feet wide (at the top - the dirt part slopes in). On the left of the pic is a TPR fed by one of the S&G filters. The upper right is a bypass for the S&G filter that will feed the waterfall (it's right by my bedroom window, I don't know if maybe the waterfall would be annoying at night), in the upper left is an outlet for the overflow pipe.

      Spent a long time on the plumbing, etc... Lots of trips to Home Depot and forgotten parts, but no big problems. Yesterday I had the pump running for the first time, checking for leaks and stuff. Everything looks good so far.

      Name:  2015-01-04 Pond FillingSmall.jpg
Views: 418
Size:  149.9 KB

      Here's the filter equipment

      Name:  2015-01-04 FilterSmall.jpg
Views: 427
Size:  160.3 KB

      Still to do (probably just a partial list) - finish electricity for equipment, run pipes for filter pit sump, find a place for the BD air pump, finish filter pit roof, finish S&G filters (I've just got the coarse gravel layer) and run pipes to blower, stone venner/cap for pond walls, build waterfall, pre-filter (there's no filter in the tub right now), build basking island for turtle.

      I did find one problem - the check valve after the pump seems to slow the water, but not stop it. Like if I turn the pump off and just look at the S&G filters I don't see any movement, but when I checked this morning (pump was off last night) the water level in the filters matched the water level in the pond. I installed the valve with the arrow at the top, I'm not sure I actually checked to make sure this "exactly" matched the hinge of the valve. Any thoughts?

      Name:  Check Valve.JPG
Views: 424
Size:  143.7 KB

    13. #13
      Jaymeseywaymsey's Avatar
      Jaymeseywaymsey is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2013
      Location
      Southern Oregon
      Posts
      1,452
      Good chance your check valve "flap hinge" is on rotated to the bottom instead of the top. This could have it not closing all the way. I've had better luck with running the valve vertically rather than horizontally.

    14. #14
      SDTurtle is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2010
      Location
      San Diego
      Posts
      38
      Quote Originally Posted by Jaymeseywaymsey View Post
      Good chance your check valve "flap hinge" is on rotated to the bottom instead of the top. This could have it not closing all the way. I've had better luck with running the valve vertically rather than horizontally.
      Like I said, I wish I had visually checked the orientation of the flap and marked the outside of the valve according, but... the outside of the valve is marked, "This Side Up" and if you look closely in the picture you can see that marking is on top. I can prevent the filters from flowing backwards manually via ball valves after the UV, so this isn't a pressing problem for now. But eventually I'd probably like to get this right (and I'm sort of frustrated, just on principle). And I don't really want to take this apart and maybe spend money for a new valve if I'm just going to reinstall it the same way and hope for the best.

      I don't really have room to install it veritcally (without bringing the pipe up from the pump, then back down, then back up to the UV). I could maybe get it at a 45 degree angle, but I'm not even sure I'd have room for that.

    15. #15
      stangale is offline Junior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Dec 2014
      Location
      Los Angeles
      Posts
      7
      Hi Jared,
      Excited to see your project. You've been busy!
      Am digging a similar sized pond, and noticed you have a skimmer in the block wall.
      What skimmer is this? Where'd you find it?
      Trying to determine what height the pond's water level will be. How high is the water level relative to the skimmer/cinder blocks? (When the pond's running, does the skimmer keep the water level halfway up the window, higher/lower?)
      The ES2500 is the pump I've been eyeing. It seems like the 5500 would be blowing water around your pond at least 4 times an hour. Check-valve issues aside, isn't this a tsunami?
      Thanks for your input.

    16. #16
      SDTurtle is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2010
      Location
      San Diego
      Posts
      38
      Quote Originally Posted by stangale View Post
      Hi Jared,
      Excited to see your project. You've been busy!
      Am digging a similar sized pond, and noticed you have a skimmer in the block wall.
      What skimmer is this? Where'd you find it?
      Trying to determine what height the pond's water level will be. How high is the water level relative to the skimmer/cinder blocks? (When the pond's running, does the skimmer keep the water level halfway up the window, higher/lower?)
      The ES2500 is the pump I've been eyeing. It seems like the 5500 would be blowing water around your pond at least 4 times an hour. Check-valve issues aside, isn't this a tsunami?
      Thanks for your input.
      I saw your post. I sent you a PM; let me know if you any questions about what I did. I got he skimmer from Steve at High Desert Koi. (He was very helpful with specific questions I wasn't totally sure about). I modified the outlet to accept a 2'' pipe. That walmart skimmer posted in your thread is much cheaper; the one I got does fit well into the block I used (no need to sort of set it back from the face of the block); I obviously can't comment on how well they'll eventually work.

      If I remember correctly, I set my skimmer a bit lower than I think you normally would - with water around an inch from the top of the skimmer door (which I believe is around what you want) the water level will be about 4'' below the top of the pond. I'll also overhang my wall cap a bit, I'm hoping this will keep the turtles from crawling out. I'm not sure if this is enough (and it probably depends on the size of the turtles).

      I wanted to use a 3'' bottom drain and a skimmer, run by a single pump. I'm feeding two 55gallon sand & gravel filters, so this puts my flow probably a little under 4,000 gph. I think since I've got a bunch of filter "features" in a small pond I've kind of got this disconnet betweent the flow required for the filters and the normal turnover rate recommended for a pond. So I was looking at an ES 4,500 and then reducing the flow after the pump as needed. They sent me an ES 5500, and I didn't return it, planning on just reducing the flow more as needed. (I tried to look up the relative energy use of a small pump vs a larger pump with a restricted flow and didn't find much - I figure if I'm unhappy with that at some point I'll sell this one and get a smaller pump). I assume/hope there's no downside to a very high turnover rate, and the main possible drawback of the bigger pump is the energy cost.

      I think I ended up with a very low head design - the filter pit is close to the pond; I used all 90 sweeps, and I'm not pumping very high above the pond. So I guess I'll see what my energy usage is like, etc... once it's all finished.

    17. #17
      stangale is offline Junior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Dec 2014
      Location
      Los Angeles
      Posts
      7
      Thanks for this info.
      Your pond and filtration plans are very similar to what I'm planning.
      Smart to lave limited head and sweeping 90's.
      Figured I'd wait several days do give you a chance to go further with your pond.
      Have you had the time to get the system running?
      Do you have the In Wall 6" Skimmer, Wide Mouth Skimmer, Compact or large Savio Skimmer?
      Very curious to see the water level in relation to the skimmer opening.
      What's the plastic bin before your pump do?
      How "busy" is your water with the ES5500?
      Looking forward to seeing your progress.

    18. #18
      SDTurtle is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2010
      Location
      San Diego
      Posts
      38
      Quote Originally Posted by stangale View Post
      Thanks for this info.
      Your pond and filtration plans are very similar to what I'm planning.
      Smart to lave limited head and sweeping 90's.
      Figured I'd wait several days do give you a chance to go further with your pond.
      Have you had the time to get the system running?
      Do you have the In Wall 6" Skimmer, Wide Mouth Skimmer, Compact or large Savio Skimmer?
      Very curious to see the water level in relation to the skimmer opening.
      What's the plastic bin before your pump do?
      How "busy" is your water with the ES5500?
      Looking forward to seeing your progress.
      The skimmer is a Waterway flo-pro II widemouth long throat skimmer, I think. I've got the pond running and everything seems to be working well. In these pictures the water is maybe an inch below where I think it should be (although I'm guessing that doesn't matter too much). I've got the water running at what I'm guessing is about 3,000 to 3,500 gph. You don't really "see" the water movement at all.

      Here's the more or less finished filter pit. The plastic bin will be for a pre-filter. The shop-vac head is piped to the S&G filters, and the air pump feeds the bottom drain. The pre-filter and the S&G filters can be drained to the sump, which can then be pumped out to the street or a tree in my yard. I've got the air pump on one remote, and the water pump and UV on a second remote.

      Name:  Filter Left.JPG
Views: 329
Size:  134.8 KB


      Name:  FilterRight.JPG
Views: 284
Size:  137.1 KB

      This is the pond without the bottom drain air pump turned on.
      Name:  PondNoAir.JPG
Views: 283
Size:  133.8 KB

      This is with the air on. It's pretty busy, and I assume it will be "worse" with the waterfall. I'm guessing this somewhat normal/somewhat caused by having a small pond. I'm guessing I'll just turn of the air pump (and maybe the water pump/waterfall) if I want to look at fish.
      Name:  PondAir.JPG
Views: 330
Size:  138.6 KB

      I had a tough time finding the finest material for the filters. I found chicken grit but at$18/50lb bag. I got two of those for one filter, and a $7/100lb bag of #20 sand for the other filter. There's a big difference. If I flow any more water through the "sand" filter it starts to fluidize (notice the water is only like 1/2 way up the outlet). On the other hand the chicken grit/gravel filter is being limited by the outlet.
      Name:  FIlterSand.JPG
Views: 368
Size:  115.4 KB
      Name:  FilterGravel.JPG
Views: 358
Size:  136.5 KB

      I'll probably replace the sand with chicken grit, and the current chicken grit filter will eventually exit via a waterfall. Some of my plumbing and the prefilter were done in part because I have a small yard and wasn't thrilled with the idea of frequently dumping a ton of water into the street. Some I'm hoping to clean the prefilter, drain into the sump, and pump that to a tree in my yard (this would be like 20 gallons or something), and in doing so increase the time between S&G cleanings. I can also drain the S&G filters into the sump and pump that to the tree, then flush them to the street using (hopefully) less water than if I hadn't drained some of the crud out.
      I have no idea if it will work out like that

      When I first started the pump I had the output restricted a little bit more. At that flow water wasn't really being pulled over the skimmer weir. I was worried I had screwed up - I've got a 2'' line from the skimmer wyed into the 3'' line from the BD feeding the pre-filter, with a ball valve on the skimmer but a knife valve on the BD. There just wasn't much water being pulled from the skimmer. But increasing the flow a little bit seemed to make a big difference: water's coming over the weir and a test ping-pong ball made its way to the skimmer promptly. I think with a little more flow the skimmer will work just fine.
      Last edited by SDTurtle; 01-19-2015 at 01:15 PM.

    19. #19
      Cheryl's Avatar
      Cheryl is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2012
      Location
      Kent, WA
      Posts
      2,846
      Looking good! I see you are using test plugs in your S/G filters, that is what I started with until the wing nut rusted and fell apart, I was using pliers to tighten and un tighten the nut and one day it just broke and I didn't think I would ever be able to get the test plug back out, but I did and I went out and bought an end cap to use instead. I'm thinking for the ones I build for my big pond I will use gate valves instead.

      Cheryl

    20. #20
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is offline Administrator ~ WWKC President
      ~ WWKC Treasurer
      is sorry otters exist
       
      Feeling:
      Annoyed
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2007
      Location
      Poulsbo, WA
      Posts
      32,942
      Looks great!
      If the BD air is too much you can add a manifold out of pvc and ball valves and just release some air
      to the atmosphere to decrease the volume to the diffuser without putting too much back pressure on
      the air pump

      I would have tee'd the skimmer line into the system after the pre-filter so you get less volume of water
      going through it and allow things to settle better and let the skimmer work via pump suction... so
      if you're not able to get enough flow via gravity flowing to the filter from the skimmer, it might be another option.


      Quote Originally Posted by Cheryl View Post
      Looking good! I see you are using test plugs in your S/G filters, that is what I started with until the wing nut rusted and fell apart, I was using pliers to tighten and un tighten the nut and one day it just broke and I didn't think I would ever be able to get the test plug back out, but I did and I went out and bought an end cap to use instead. I'm thinking for the ones I build for my big pond I will use gate valves instead.

      Cheryl
      Mine did the same (rusted) and it looks like SDTurtle might have done like I did and before it failed I just used the
      test plug as a plug and actually I remove the whole piece of pipe from the conduit adapter to release the
      water. You could do the same with just a regular plug and piece of pipe. Personally, I wouldn't use a knife
      valve as most I've gotten leak to one extent or another. And expensive.

      --Steve



      Koiphen 2021 Koi Person of the Year!

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •