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    Thread: Getting Goldfish Growth

    1. #1
      jimfish98's Avatar
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      Getting Goldfish Growth

      I have all of these new goldfish and I am looking to get them to grow large. I have seen the size of some of these fish at the Orlando Show and I admit there is some jealousy. Genetics is a big thing and this new stock has more to work with than anything coming from Petsmart prior. The question is, what else can I do to ensure they get to that size. Giving them water is out of the question though as they will not get mixed into the Koi pond, get their own pond, nor will DW let me get a larger tank anytime soon. They do however get to go into a large 250+ gallon QT pool to help cycle it in February prior to new Koi coming in. They spend about 2-3 weeks out there during that time frame with large water changes and water turning about 5x/hour. Here are my specs for my normal set up. Let me know any other suggestions on care and food.

      Tank- 47g
      Filter- Rena XP4 which at peak performance flows 450gph. I am sure media and time decrease this a bit. Inside there are 20 and 30 pads in basket one, cermedia in baskets 2 and 3, chem bags (carbon, ammonia down, phos down) and a micro pad in basket 4.
      Water changes- didn't do too many prior, but trying to stick to 50-70% weekly
      Food- I have a large container of Azoo and a lot of sample packets of some other foods. It is all mixed together right now with the Azoo being the primary ingredient. Here is everything with content.

      Azoo 9-1 (main portion of mix)
      Guaranteed Analysis
      Crude Protein min. 33.0%
      Crude Fat min. 3.0%
      Crude Fiber max. 5.0%
      Moisture max. 5.0%

      Hikari Oranda Gold (sample packets added)
      Guaranteed Analysis
      Crude Protein 45% min.
      Crude Fat 6% min.
      Crude Fiber 10% max.
      Moisture 14% max.
      Ash 1.2% max.
      Added Vitamin
      Vitamin A 36,000 IU/kg
      Vitamin C 190 mg/kg
      Vitamin D3 7,300 IU/kg
      Vitamin E 350 mg/kg

      Hikari Gold Golfish (Sample packets added)
      Guaranteed Analysis
      Crude Protein 32% min.
      Crude Fat 4% min.
      Crude Fiber 5% max.
      Moisture 10% max.
      Ash 12% max.

      Saki-Hidari Fancy Goldfish Pellet (Sample Packets added)
      Guaranteed Analysis
      Crude Protein 45% min.
      Crude Fat 7% min.
      Crude Fiber 3.0% max.
      Moisture 10% max.
      Crude Ash 20% max.
      Phosphorus 1.8% min.
      B. subtilis 10,000 CFU/g min.



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    2. #2
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      nor will DW let me get a larger tank anytime soon.
      Hello Jim , show her this pic. she gotta love it this was my 300 gallon in door goldfish pond that I build yrs ago in our other home .She going to want to have this set-up in ur house , I know my wife just love it and my mancave became our family cave
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    3. #3
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      My wife doesn't care for fish at all so pushing for more is out of the question on that end right now. We are also looking for a larger house as it is so I do not want to buy/build a larger set up and then have to leave it or move it.



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    4. #4
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      I think your limiting factor is going to be water changes. That is a pretty small tank to get any substantial growth. Anyway to plumb a flow through trickle where the tank is located?

    5. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by KurtG View Post
      I think your limiting factor is going to be water changes. That is a pretty small tank to get any substantial growth. Anyway to plumb a flow through trickle where the tank is located?
      Nope. I could buy a tank of large goldfish cheaper than I can get water and drainage to the tank. We have no basements down here, so the drain line alone would include pulling flooring and jack hammering into the foundation.



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    6. #6
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      Water is going to be your primary challenge- you'll need to do a lot of big water changes. Weekly. You can get decent size goldfish in even a 55g tank, softball size fancies, but they eat like pigs and I was doing 75% water change every week.
      Getting your solid waste out is another, either vacuum or use filters that pull your solid waste out. Rinse filtration weekly.
      For me personally I've gotten best growth with Saki-Hikari as the base diet (green bag) with bloodworms and duckweed. I grew my own duckweed to have a constant supply.

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      First I do 90% water change every week, on all my tubs and Aquariums (23 Aquariums right now). I rotate my Foods, and get great growth.

      Food for Fancy's or my indoor Goldfish
      Repashy Soilent Green --> Blood Worms --> Southern Delight Goldfish Blend --> Brine Shrimp --> Hikari Black Bag --> Black Worms --> Hikari Purple Bag --> back to Repashy again

      Single Tail or Pond
      Tomigai Spirulina and Tomigai Wheat Germ Mix, plus they get all the outdoor bug and algae

      Outdoor Fancy Goldfish during warmer season
      Southern Delight Goldfish Blend

    8. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by Romewhip View Post
      Water is going to be your primary challenge- you'll need to do a lot of big water changes. Weekly. You can get decent size goldfish in even a 55g tank, softball size fancies, but they eat like pigs and I was doing 75% water change every week.
      Getting your solid waste out is another, either vacuum or use filters that pull your solid waste out. Rinse filtration weekly.
      For me personally I've gotten best growth with Saki-Hikari as the base diet (green bag) with bloodworms and duckweed. I grew my own duckweed to have a constant supply.
      I am right next to a window and my patio hose bib, so I stick the hose in and unhook it from the bib and it starts siphoning immediately. I keep a bare bottom tank and use the hose to clean it at the same time. Water changes are fairly fast and easy that way.



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    9. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by Shine5555 View Post
      First I do 90% water change every week, on all my tubs and Aquariums (23 Aquariums right now). I rotate my Foods, and get great growth.

      Food for Fancy's or my indoor Goldfish
      Repashy Soilent Green --> Blood Worms --> Southern Delight Goldfish Blend --> Brine Shrimp --> Hikari Black Bag --> Black Worms --> Hikari Purple Bag --> back to Repashy again

      Single Tail or Pond
      Tomigai Spirulina and Tomigai Wheat Germ Mix, plus they get all the outdoor bug and algae

      Outdoor Fancy Goldfish during warmer season
      Southern Delight Goldfish Blend
      I would do more on the water change like you, but I let it drain down to just above the intake on the canister filter. Any lower and I lose the siphon on it. Food wise, that is some routine. I can see myself adding the blood worms and brine shrimp. Thanks.



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    10. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by jimfish98 View Post
      I would do more on the water change like you, but I let it drain down to just above the intake on the canister filter. Any lower and I lose the siphon on it. Food wise, that is some routine. I can see myself adding the blood worms and brine shrimp. Thanks.
      Don't forget to be sure you have plenty of green food going in- you need something to help all that protein move through their guts. The deep bodies tend to build up bacteria and start going septic if they don't have good bowel movement, which duckweed or some kind of green food will give you.

      Your water change will be easy, that's great.

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      Great Point. Fancy's need good greens. The Repashy Soilent Green, is a gel food that you have to mix, but is great to help them clean out. I also use Repashy Super Green once every few weeks


      Quote Originally Posted by Romewhip View Post
      Don't forget to be sure you have plenty of green food going in- you need something to help all that protein move through their guts. The deep bodies tend to build up bacteria and start going septic if they don't have good bowel movement, which duckweed or some kind of green food will give you.

      Your water change will be easy, that's great.

    12. #12
      jimfish98's Avatar
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      Why do you choose your separate versions? Have either of you used the other's recommendation? Are real plants better than a gel?



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    13. #13
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      If you have more than two fish in that tank, you aren't going to get much size. The people who groom fish for show usually keep them in tubs with shallow water, massive amounts of food given multiple times a day, and 100% water changes anywhere from daily to every 5 days.

      Here's one grooming description.

      The easiest way to get growth on fancy goldfish is to get them outside. A 50 gallon Rubbermaid stock tank works fine for 4 fancy goldfish. In my experience, fancies benefit more from being outdoors than pond-type goldfish, and lots of people have observed they grow much faster outdoors. You could rotate a couple of fish at a time in your aquarium to enjoy them inside.

      Soft food is beneficial to fish with cramped digestive systems. Repashy Soilent Green is popular with keepers of fancy goldies. Duckweed is fairly easy to grow here in the cooler weather and is very good for digestion as well as very nutritious.

    14. #14
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      I should have mentioned, that my food rotation is carried out with 4 feedings a day. More frequent smaller feedings a day works better than one or two larger feedings

    15. #15
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      I think I have a plan set and we will see how it turns out. Water changes will be attempted bi-weekly at 50% each change. Food will be a Hikari mix (Wheat Germ, Staple, Gold, Fancy)as a general feed a couple times a day. Blood worms will be done once a week, likely the day before a water change. One of the daily feedings will be just the Soilent Green. I have gotten decent growth off of my Petsmart survivor with minimal care. It hit 4 inches in its first year or so and at nearly 2 years its close to 5 plus another 2-3 on its tail. I am hoping this will help ensure I get better results with these goldfish and maybe pack some size on the survivor. I am hoping that the lack of horizontal swimming area can be made up for with the vertical space and the spray bar return creating a nice current so they get big without getting fat.



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      Just because its not a Great Koi doesn't mean its not a Great Koi...Me circa 2013

    16. #16
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      I hope to expand on this thread as time goes by to see what happens. I did not take initial measurements, but they were all ordered in a small category which they classified any where between 1.5 and 2.5 inches from lips to the end of the tail. Purchase date was September for one set, another a set a couple months prior. Goal will be to do the first measure around the time of the Virtual Show. That will give me about 2.5 months of work before I measure any results. I will take pictures and post at that point. This weekend I will be mixing my dry foods. Like my I prefer for my Koi, I prefer a mix on the dry items as I believe no one food has it all. Each meal will be slightly different for them depending on what they eat and what is in my pinch of the mix. A meal a day of the Soilent Green and one meal a week of blood worms. Below is the dry mix which is basically the whole Hikari line. We will see results in Mid-Late December.


      Azoo 9-1 (main portion of mix)- This will eventually get fazed out as its used up.
      Guaranteed Analysis
      Crude Protein min. 33.0%
      Crude Fat min. 3.0%
      Crude Fiber max. 5.0%
      Moisture max. 5.0%

      Hikari Oranda Gold
      Guaranteed Analysis
      Crude Protein 45% min.
      Crude Fat 6% min.
      Crude Fiber 10% max.
      Moisture 14% max.
      Ash 1.2% max.
      Added Vitamin
      Vitamin A 36,000 IU/kg
      Vitamin C 190 mg/kg
      Vitamin D3 7,300 IU/kg
      Vitamin E 350 mg/kg

      Hikari Gold Golfish
      Guaranteed Analysis
      Crude Protein 32% min.
      Crude Fat 4% min.
      Crude Fiber 5% max.
      Moisture 10% max.
      Ash 12% max.

      Saki-Hikari Fancy Goldfish Pellet
      Guaranteed Analysis
      Crude Protein 45% min.
      Crude Fat 7% min.
      Crude Fiber 3.0% max.
      Moisture 10% max.
      Crude Ash 20% max.
      Phosphorus 1.8% min.
      B. subtilis 10,000 CFU/g min.

      Hikari Lionhead
      Guaranteed Analysis
      Crude Protein 46% min.
      Crude Fat 6% min.
      Crude Fiber 5% max.
      Moisture 12% max.
      Ash 10% max.

      Hikari Goldfish Staple
      GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
      Crude Protein Crude Fat Crude Fiber Moisture Crude Ash Phosphorus
      min. 32% min. 4.0%max. 3.0%max. 10% max. 12%min. 0.7%

      Hikari Mini Wheat Germ
      GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
      Crude Protein Crude Fat Crude Fiber Moisture Crude Ash
      min. 32% min. 4% max. 5% max. 10% max. 12%



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    17. #17
      jimfish98's Avatar
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      The soilent green showed up today. Pretty easy to make, but that stuff stinks before it turns to the jello form. The pleco and goldfish loved the stuff. The comment about helping them digest was dead on, they were crapping half the afternoon after that.



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      helping them digest was dead on, they were crapping half the afternoon after that.
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    19. #19
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      I should have warned you about the smell. I almost need to sell the stuff with a warning . When I sell the stuff at a show, I tell people the best stuff ever, but it stinks. I make mine in small Ice-cube trays, and then keep about 2 weeks worth in the refrigerator

    20. #20
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      its the just initial stench. Once its jello its fine. I just used a small bowl and then sliced and diced.

      I will say I have hit a mini success with two goldfish. My cage around the filter intake has kept them from offing themselves yet, so at two weeks they have out lived all of my bubble eye since moving to a bigger tank.



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