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    Thread: Gill Tumor??

    1. #1
      Kathyme's Avatar
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      Exclamation Gill Tumor?- Added Pics.

      I have a sick koi that's been acting "off" for a couple months. I've posted here recently about my planned "shotgun" approach because I don't have a microscope and didn't know what was wrong. I treated with Proform C only a couple months ago, but my product was dated and I was planning to try again. I have Prazi and Proform C on order. I was underfiltered when she started acting weird. Advantage 5 to a Matala 10 step bio back to the pond. Air to bottom drain and UV lite too. We have a 2000 gallon pond with 3 koi (20-22") and one goldfish. Anyway, we've sense added a sand and gravel filter (birdman style) and small trickle tower, water looks a lot better and the water parameters are at:

      0 ammonia
      0 nitrate (never can measure any)
      0 nitrite
      Carbonate hardness always runs around 70
      My ph runs 8-8.2, I've checked morning and night and the difference is small.

      HERE IS MY NEW FINDING! My female koi has what looks like two TUMORS on her gill, one side only. I stupidly didn't have a camera handy when we netted her....Frankly, I didn't have confidence that I'd be able to identify a gill problem if I saw it, but I was wrong. I've googled "koi gill tumor" images and did not see anything that looked just like what I saw on her but did see the comment below on PetMD.com.

      For instance, gill tumor, which is caused by a thyroid problem, can be treated by placing the fish in water medicated with iodine.


      These "tumors" were easy to see, pinkinsh and whitish and right next to each other, almost bulging from her gill plate. Pretty round and between 1/4 and 1/2 " in diameter.

      I KNOW pics will be better and will try to post them later (my helper isn't here now) but can anyone offer any advice?
      Last edited by Kathyme; 10-05-2014 at 04:35 PM.
      The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. ~ Mohandas Ghandi

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    2. #2
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      We renetted and tried to get some pics of her gills. Can anyone offer advice on this? Looks different that I first thought....going to look for other posts now.
      Attached Images Attached Images    
      The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. ~ Mohandas Ghandi

    3. #3
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      I do not think all tumors are created equal so I would not think iodine would be something that would work. Try it and see if it works, if not, my recommendation would be to put the Koi down as the tumor will keep it from getting the oxygen it needs to live.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    4. #4
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      my suggestion would be to consult a vet.
      James

    5. #5
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      I was afraid of this and appreciate your expert input Russell. This is sad news that I was afraid of. Thank you just the same...... Kathy
      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      I do not think all tumors are created equal so I would not think iodine would be something that would work. Try it and see if it works, if not, my recommendation would be to put the Koi down as the tumor will keep it from getting the oxygen it needs to live.
      The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. ~ Mohandas Ghandi

    6. #6
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      Where can I find out about the correct iodine treatment? any links anyone?
      The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. ~ Mohandas Ghandi

    7. #7
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      You can try to get in touch with Tim Miller Morgan he is in Oregon and works for the University
      Jim Kitchen

    8. #8
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      I've sent a note to Dr. Tim Miller Morgan through a website where I found him. Not sure that he will have a chance to respond, but I'll watch for it.
      The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. ~ Mohandas Ghandi

    9. #9
      cindy's Avatar
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      Never seen anything like that, let me see if Spike, Karen or Duncan has.

    10. #10
      Appliance Guy's Avatar
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      I have seen a hobbyist successfully remove these sacs. Would normally not post from other sites, but I feel the OP should see this. If need to remove link, I understand. http://www.thepondforum.com/showthre...highlight=gill
      Tim can always be reached at 850-380-7824 or timnye850@gmail.com

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    11. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by Appliance Guy View Post
      I have seen a hobbyist successfully remove these sacs. Would normally not post from other sites, but I feel the OP should see this. If need to remove link, I understand. http://www.thepondforum.com/showthre...highlight=gill
      It looks like a good thread but since I'm not a member, I can't see pictures.

    12. #12
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      I registered on the site, but still couldn't view the pictures.
      The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. ~ Mohandas Ghandi

    13. #13
      cindy's Avatar
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      Still researching. John calls it gill goiter http://jnfkoifarms.com/symptomsofkoi.html

    14. #14
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      Looking for a cause and solution

      Although less toxic than ammonia or nitrite, chronic exposure to nitrate has been associated with development of goiter in some species of elasmobranchs. This is exacerbated by low concentrations of iodide (I–). Iodide should be maintained at concentrations of 0.10–0.15 µM and monitored biweekly. Ozonation can remove available I– by oxidizing it to iodate (IO3), which is not biologically available
      http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/exot...s_of_fish.html

    15. #15
      cindy's Avatar
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      Starting to lean toward iodine salt treatment:http://www.examiner.com/article/salt-why-or-why-not

      Are all these salts the same? Yes, but there are additives in the different salts that are being used for different purposes and the purity of the salt. Rock salt, basically, is just as it comes from the salt mines or evaporation ponds. It contains greater or lesser amounts of impurities and is not usually suitable for human ingestion. Water softener salt is a purified form that is usually pressed into pellets. Except for its physical form it would be suitable for use in cooking; it is also a bit pricey to be using as an ice-melt. Table salt comes in two basic formulas; iodized and non-iodized. The latter is used where natural iodine content in the drinking water and other food sources may not be sufficient to prevent human goiter (a disease condition of the thyroid gland). Table salts also contain one or more additives that prevent them from caking, and therefore, free flowing, in a humid atmosphere.

      Are the additives in table salt harmful in aquariums or ponds? No, neither the small percentage of iodides nor the anti-caking additives can be considered to be dangerous when the salt is used in ponds or aquariums. There is no valid reason to use only non-iodized salt yet this is always a hot topic for discussion and argument among aquarium hobbyists. In reality, the minuscule amount of iodide that would end up in a treated pond or aquarium is likely to be beneficial (as a potential source of essential iodine for both certain plants and animals) and certainly not harmful. Fishes can suffer from goiter (= iodine deficiency) also.

    16. #16
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      If its slow growing and the fish isn't struggling and the other side is ok, I'd try the salt in a hospital tank.

      Wish I knew more about how to treat but just an opinion. Still watching for replies from my sources. In the meantime, keep a watch on the nitrites and nitrates.

    17. #17
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      Question from D

      "To be honest are you sure this is tumour how does it feel is it firm to the touch? or can you still separate the filaments?"

    18. #18
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      It is surprising how little iodized salt one would need to add to achieve 0.10 to 0.15 µM of I-. If I have done the math correctly, Potassium iodide (molecular weight 166) at the rate of 16.6 to 33.2 µg per liter or 63 to 94 mg per 1000 gallons will achieve the therapeutic concentration of iodine. Iodized table salt is approximately 0.01% potassium iodide, so you would need to add 6.3 to 9.4 grams of iodized salt per 1000 gallons to achieve the therapeutic concentration. This would be a salt concentration of only 0.0002%.

    19. #19
      Appliance Guy's Avatar
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      Ok, maybe the thread is abbreviated because I used the search feature and then copied that url. I bumped the other thread and this is different link. http://www.thepondforum.com/showthre...-koi-procedure
      Tim can always be reached at 850-380-7824 or timnye850@gmail.com

    20. #20
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