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    Thread: Large Shotcrete pond build

    1. #1
      Josh H's Avatar
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      Large Shotcrete pond build

      So after building the pond over the winter originally and suffering a wall colapse... we were able to turn in the damage to our homeowners policy and hence we are now doing a shotcrete pond... Originally I was just going to to redo the liner and leave in the cinder block wall, then I decided since I was already going to have rent equipment and re do everything that I might as well rip out the blocks and do a deeper pond and vertical walls... then of course I added a 6" airlift for circulation and an extra bottom drain along with adding an additonal skimmer and midwater return... We make progress everyday but the goal of being ready to shotcrete seems elusive... no post is complete with out pictures so here we go... We are estimating around 30 yards to do the shotcrete... depth is at 8.5 feet to bottom drains... The main pond is 40 feet long and 18 wide at the widest and 8 feet at the shallow end...
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    2. #2
      Josh H's Avatar
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      New pond in the planning stages... 10-15,000 gal

      Here is the link to my original build...

      [URL="http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?136505-New-pond-in-the-planning-stages-10-15-000-gal"]

    3. #3
      Josh H's Avatar
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      Here is where we stand as of today... we spent all day yesterday laying the rebar in the floor with 6" spacing... that's lots of tying wire.
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      Keep the photos coming! I'm excited about the filtration pictures!

    5. #5
      asat is offline Member
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      Any idea what caused the wall collapse? Wondering as I am planning a similar type build (block,collar, and dirt excavation below)

    6. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by Josh H View Post
      Here is where we stand as of today... we spent all day yesterday laying the rebar in the floor with 6" spacing... that's lots of tying wire.
      Do you plan to rebar the walls as well? Just curious as usually the rebar is installed so that the floor bar is bent upwards for the walls. If you plan to add the rebar on the walls, which if doing shotcrete/gunite, is required, make sure you overlap every single joint by 24". Also, you really don't need to do 6"oc, 12"oc with #3 bar with a #4 double bond beam would be quite sufficient.
      Mike

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      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    7. #7
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      Yes,

      I decided when building that I didn't need a concrete footing or concrete collar as well as I had about 10 tons of boulders stacked in one area, the dirt under the boulders settled after a 5 inch rain and pushed the wall over... There wasn't any water in it at that time to offset the pressure... I did have vertical rebar in each space as well as pour extra concrete behind the first and third course with horizontal rebar, thinking that would make up for the footer and collar... I also poured the concrete and did the back fill excavation in sub zero weather with caused alot of settling in the dirt... Also I used a 6" block instead of 8"... If I had to do it over that way again I would pour the footing and do a concrete collar and you shouldn't have any problems...

    8. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      Do you plan to rebar the walls as well? Just curious as usually the rebar is installed so that the floor bar is bent upwards for the walls. If you plan to add the rebar on the walls, which if doing shotcrete/gunite, is required, make sure you overlap every single joint by 24". Also, you really don't need to do 6"oc, 12"oc with #3 bar with a #4 double bond beam would be quite sufficient.
      Mike,

      Thanks for the reply, I've been following many of your posts on builds and xypex... I added the additional rebar for multiple reasons, we had a soil collapse on the far end and as well as the downhill side is all fill dirt and will shift over time so the pool shell needs to be able to support the surcharge forces itself... the uphill side is good compacted soil but has the gravity wall and then above that the house, as well as being 8.5 deep... Not sure if it was correct or not but didn't want to rebuild it for a third time... The last picture is gives you an idea of the hill we are on, The backhoe and slightly to the right is where the pond is...
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    9. #9
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      [QUOTE=bretthogan;2429084]Keep the photos coming! I'm excited about the filtration pictures![/QUOT

      Thanks, I can't seem to attach links correctly in my signature or on the forum, but if you check out my build post that I tried to link to above you can see the filter room progress, it's actually done just waiting on the shotcrete... actually I remembered I hadn't sent in any updates so here are some pics, basically just shows the pipes painted gray...
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    10. #10
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      So are those supersized s/g filters?
      I'll be interested to see how the split to two outlets work for you too... nice job!
      --Steve
      Find more about Weather in Poulsbo, WA

      "It is far better to be alone, than to be in bad company." --George Washington

    11. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by Josh H View Post
      Mike,

      Thanks for the reply, I've been following many of your posts on builds and xypex... I added the additional rebar for multiple reasons, we had a soil collapse on the far end and as well as the downhill side is all fill dirt and will shift over time so the pool shell needs to be able to support the surcharge forces itself... the uphill side is good compacted soil but has the gravity wall and then above that the house, as well as being 8.5 deep... Not sure if it was correct or not but didn't want to rebuild it for a third time... The last picture is gives you an idea of the hill we are on, The backhoe and slightly to the right is where the pond is...
      Well, that explains quite a bit. I forgot about your wall cave-in and if it were me, I too would be erring on the side of caution/safety. 6"oc is really strong, and should overcome the issue with the pond depth and the uphill slope issue. We're currently building a roughly 7000-7500gal pond on the bottom of a steep hillside with a slope of approx 1 in 3. There's a 3 1/2' max height retaining wall with a 3' walkway and then the pond. So, to counteract the slope issue, we dug an additional 12" depth below the retaining wall as a "key" and benched approx. 20' of the 30' retaining wall walkway at a 12" thick pour. The entire project was shot as one single monolithic pour to add additional downhill strength/support. A drainage system was installed under/behind the wall with a waterproof membrane behind the structural wall to allow drainage in the immediate area. There are also two other additional drainage lines existing above, about mid level on the slope as well. The retaining wall was rebarred using #4 bar in a 6"x12" grid along with the walkway in #4 bar. The rest is #3 bar with a #4 bar double bond beam around the entire pond. This was all recommended by an engineer and stated that what we were doing is "way over engineered" for the conditions. We like to do things that way!
      Mike

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    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post


      So are those supersized s/g filters?
      I'll be interested to see how the split to two outlets work for you too... nice job!
      Yes they are supersized S/G filters Birdman style, my reasoning was to make a larger capacity filter on the same foot print rather than adding more barells in the filter room... If these four aren't enough I will add another S/G tote outside the filter room... there are four of them that hold approximately 85-90 gallons of liquid and are about 30" above pond level that gravity feed to the 7 tpr's 2"... Three of them are split from 3" to two 2" as you saw in the pictures... I cut the top out of the barells overlaped them about 4" and used self tapping screws every 4 to six inches around the perimeter then used P&L to act as a gasket... they seem to be pretty solid but time will tell... I may put some steel strapping around the seamed area for extra rigidity... I couldn't believe how much gravel they held... I went to a sand quarry and got 2300lbs of course sand in the bed of my truck thinking I would have a few hundred lbs to spare, I only filled three of them so I need at least another 500-800lbs... That's not including the weight of the larger gravel on the bottom layers...

    13. #13
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      update

      So we've been working on the rebar most of the week with a few set backs and learning curves but I did find a contractor to do the shorcrete and the shot is going to be this Tuesday... I'm so excited ... I just have some finishing touches on the skimmers and adding some rock behind the osb and I'm ready to go... I'm going to try and video some of the shoot... One step closer to water...
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    14. #14
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      that is going to be a great pond...
      DAN







    15. #15
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      Whoa!!!

    16. #16
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      Awesome thread. Thanks for sharing the journey with us.

      Doug - out
      See Our Pond http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ond&highlight=

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    17. #17
      koiman1950's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Josh H View Post
      So we've been working on the rebar most of the week with a few set backs and learning curves but I did find a contractor to do the shorcrete and the shot is going to be this Tuesday... I'm so excited ... I just have some finishing touches on the skimmers and adding some rock behind the osb and I'm ready to go... I'm going to try and video some of the shoot... One step closer to water...
      Josh

      Looking at these latest pics, the osb board is on the outside of the rebar until it reaches the top of the osb, then the rebar goes up/over in most places, but the bottom left pic shows a rebar bond beam behind the osb with a HUGE gaping hole behind it. I can also see some vertical rebar behind the osb wall as well. I guess I'm a bit confused here, but is this going to be done using "shotcrete" or "gunite"?

      Also, in pic #2, it appears that skimmer is set way too low.
      Mike

      check out our website at: http://www.pond-life.net



      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

    18. #18
      Josh H's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      Josh

      Looking at these latest pics, the osb board is on the outside of the rebar until it reaches the top of the osb, then the rebar goes up/over in most places, but the bottom left pic shows a rebar bond beam behind the osb with a HUGE gaping hole behind it. I can also see some vertical rebar behind the osb wall as well. I guess I'm a bit confused here, but is this going to be done using "shotcrete" or "gunite"?

      Also, in pic #2, it appears that skimmer is set way too low.


      Man Mike... you don't miss a thing ... Were to start, we were going to shotcrete the walls and then back fill that huge hole where the wall colapsed, then do a regular wheelbarrow mix and forms for the upper portion after backfill... since then I've found a different contractor to do the shoot who has done many pools in the area... he wanted to go a different route which I liked better, today we sturdied all of the osb best we could then filled with gravel, the best way we found was to use heavy metal fence posts and drive in all way then triple layer tying wire through holes in the osb... in the large cavity we filled with burlap sand bags then more rebar in the bags to try and keep pressure off of the boards... Seems to be working as none of the boards have moved so far... we only have 45 or so hours for them to hold so I think we are OK... Meanwhile when I brought the sand bags up the hill with the skid steer I jumped off of the bucket about two feet high and heard my right ankle pop when I landed, laying here with an ice pack right now... hope I can hobble at least tomorrow... contractor is sending a three man crew tomorrow to help with all of the things you mentioned... The skimmer has been adjusted to level and we have added more support to the outer forms as well... On schedule to shotcrete on Tuesday, contractor tells me he thinks 50 yds or so as I have alot of over dig from all the collapses ... he says 10-12 man crew and should make for a 10-12 hour day... going to be very busy the next few days but I'll try to keep up with pics... planning on doing the mortar xypex application on Weds, not me I don't think I'll be able to climb a ladder... Thanks for all the help...

    19. #19
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      Here are some photos of what we accomplished yesterday, today the contractor crew came and set up scafolding all the way around the pond and supported a the exterior form work... Tomorrow is the big day!
      They are going to shoot the upper rock ledge and beam first then do the coves and walls because of the depth of the wall...
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    20. #20
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      This is so exciting, can't wait for tomorrow's pics!

      Cheryl
      My pond build


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