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  • Results 1 to 18 of 18

    Thread: Koi skin tumors ? with bug eyes

    1. #1
      jeffcopeland's Avatar
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      Koi skin tumors ? with bug eyes

      So for the last couple of years this koi has had some type of growths on the top of its body.
      This spring they have gotten larger and I also noticed its eyes are protruding out.
      No other koi has this condition.
      The koi is 14 years old and is acting healthy and eating well.

      Would appreciate any advice
      Thanks
      Jeff
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    2. #2
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      Could be carp pox. It usually goes away as the water gets warmer.

      Cheryl

    3. #3
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      Many fish will develop bugged eyes when kidneys fail, but it is accompanied by dropsy. There are some bacterial infections that will cause pop eye as well.
      Zone 7 A/B
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      Richard

    4. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by Cheryl View Post
      Could be carp pox.

      Cheryl
      Can that be dark in color?
      The growths seem to be pinkish in color.

    5. #5
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      No, I believe carp pox looks like waxy white spots that can show up just about anywhere on the fish. The bulging eyes are concerning though. I'm no expert, so I'll let the experts chime in. I hope you get it figured out!

      Cheryl

    6. #6
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      Any chance of a closer picture? If they are red, I'm concerned that - along w/ the pop eyes - there is a bacterial issue - as Rich mentioned.
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member

    7. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by ademink View Post
      Any chance of a closer picture? If they are red, I'm concerned that - along w/ the pop eyes - there is a bacterial issue - as Rich mentioned.
      I took these with an iPhone so I was struggling to get a good photo.
      Was reading about dropsy which sounds like it could be that.
      Options and treatment seem a little complicated?

    8. #8
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      I will have a 150 gallon quarantine tank available Memorial Day weekend which currently houses turtles for the winter when they are moved outside for the summer.

    9. #9
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      If it were dropsy, the scales would be standing out, making it look like a pine cone. I am not seeing that yet. If it is dropsy, without a significant ulcer, it is an indication that internal bacterial infection has caused significant impairment of the kidneys. Antibiotics will treat the infection, but most are hard on the kidneys, which are already impaired, making it a downward spiral. Most will say it is terminal. With significant ulceration, I have had success with antibiotics and high levels of salt in a heated QT.
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      Richard

    10. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by RichToyBox View Post
      If it were dropsy, the scales would be standing out, making it look like a pine cone. I am not seeing that yet. If it is dropsy, without a significant ulcer, it is an indication that internal bacterial infection has caused significant impairment of the kidneys. Antibiotics will treat the infection, but most are hard on the kidneys, which are already impaired, making it a downward spiral. Most will say it is terminal. With significant ulceration, I have had success with antibiotics and high levels of salt in a heated QT.
      Thanks Rich
      At the suggestion of my local pond contractor we added a significant amount of salt in early April.
      That has been the only treatment to date.

      I have a heater on the indoor 150 gallon tank but have no experience treating sick fish, as I have been very fortunate the last 14 years with this pond.

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    11. #11
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      Rich what antibiotics would you suggest or would it be better to just put the fish down since I have no medical experience treating koi?

    12. #12
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      Injectibles are best. See the health sticky for types, dosages, and take that to your vet and see if he will assist by providing the antibiotics. Some will, and some won't. Also get some clove oil, it is available at GNC, behind the counter at the pharmacy, or online to sedate the fish. If you can't get the vet to help, I would get the Tricide Neo and for the internal infection, I don't think you have a choice but to do the dip method, which I consider expensive and wasteful, but is effective for many problems.
      Zone 7 A/B
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      Richard

    13. #13
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      I have heard that large amounts of nitrate, can course bulgy eyes, but not sure....


      Click for Randers, Denmark Forecast

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      Hard to tell from the pic if the eyes are actually bulging or if it's just growths above the eyes.
      Click for Toronto Pearson, Ontario Forecast

    15. #15
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      Yes, the eyes are "bulging" somewhat. I've also seen some fish, coming out of winter, that when they begin to get fed, aren't up to the level if digestion necessary to process the food easily. this can cause either a backup in the intestines and/or a bacterial infection/irritation. Sometimes, this can be remedied by simply putting the fish in a separate qtank and warming it up to around 70 with no food for a week. The bulging is due to pressure buildup with the fish's system that, if the blockage passes, the eyes will go back to normal.

      This "theory" is based on two separate issues that I encountered with fish early in Spring. Both appeared to show the effects of Dropsy, with the scales immediately behind the gill plates begin to swell/separate. In both cases, I stopped feeding and purchased some fresher food. After a week, the swelling and bulgy eyes went back to normal and they never showed those symptoms again.

      Suggestion: do NOT listen to that pond contractor guy. Adding a "bunch of salt" doesn't do anything to eradicate parasites/bacteria. Most now only use it to ward off the side effects of Nitrite poisoning in new ponds or in Spring in harsh winter climates.
      Mike

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    16. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      Yes, the eyes are "bulging" somewhat. I've also seen some fish, coming out of winter, that when they begin to get fed, aren't up to the level if digestion necessary to process the food easily. this can cause either a backup in the intestines and/or a bacterial infection/irritation. Sometimes, this can be remedied by simply putting the fish in a separate qtank and warming it up to around 70 with no food for a week. The bulging is due to pressure buildup with the fish's system that, if the blockage passes, the eyes will go back to normal.

      This "theory" is based on two separate issues that I encountered with fish early in Spring. Both appeared to show the effects of Dropsy, with the scales immediately behind the gill plates begin to swell/separate. In both cases, I stopped feeding and purchased some fresher food. After a week, the swelling and bulgy eyes went back to normal and they never showed those symptoms again.

      Suggestion: do NOT listen to that pond contractor guy. Adding a "bunch of salt" doesn't do anything to eradicate parasites/bacteria. Most now only use it to ward off the side effects of Nitrite poisoning in new ponds or in Spring in harsh winter climates.
      Well said. I agree with what Koiman1950 has suggested.

      Karl
      Karl Schoeler, founder: EIHIOICGI

      Certified: AKCA Better Health Practices December 2008


    17. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by koiman1950 View Post
      Yes, the eyes are "bulging" somewhat. I've also seen some fish, coming out of winter, that when they begin to get fed, aren't up to the level if digestion necessary to process the food easily. this can cause either a backup in the intestines and/or a bacterial infection/irritation. Sometimes, this can be remedied by simply putting the fish in a separate qtank and warming it up to around 70 with no food for a week. The bulging is due to pressure buildup with the fish's system that, if the blockage passes, the eyes will go back to normal.

      This "theory" is based on two separate issues that I encountered with fish early in Spring. Both appeared to show the effects of Dropsy, with the scales immediately behind the gill plates begin to swell/separate. In both cases, I stopped feeding and purchased some fresher food. After a week, the swelling and bulgy eyes went back to normal and they never showed those symptoms s.
      Mike I had a major event over the winter. In January the 4 inch knife valve failed for my bottom drain during extreme cold.
      I noticed my air bubbler was not bubbling tapped a little hole in the area and the entire ice layer of the pond collapsed dropping 3 feet with the loudest crash you ever heard.
      Was not able to repair until April so my 7 koi lived in only 1 foot of water for most of the winter. I used one of those powerful red deicer units and somehow they all survived with no injuries
      Will try not feeding for awhile to see what happens

    18. #18
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      Jeff, though I have never personally experienced this "ice" situation, I do know that there is a concussive force caused when a completely ice covered pond has an occurrence such as this. Unsuspectingly, a person will go out and try to break up the ice sheet covering the pond. Evidently, the concussive force involved with this can put undo "pressure" on the inhabitants which can cause results such as bulging eyes and such, up to an including instant death from the pressure changes.

      I would suggest doing what I previously suggested, and just provide very good water quality. This may or may not be a permanent issue with regard to this fish however. Sorry.
      Mike

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