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  • Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
    Results 41 to 57 of 57

    Thread: Airlift Manifold Testing Station

    1. #41
      Zac Penn's Avatar
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      The show was great. I got to meet a couple new people and had a good conversation with someone trying to setup an airlift pond. I think he is going to use my manifolds and I will stay in touch to see what he ends up doing with them. I have not had any more time to play but will hopefully get back to it soon.
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    2. #42
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      Glad you had a good time Zac. I can promise that if this person uses your manifolds, he will be amazed at the quality of the product. I LOVE mine.
      Cant wait till you can "play" some more.
      Practicing Pescetarian

    3. #43
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      Hi Zac, have you had any more "free" time to invest in this project.... there hasn't been much airlift talk on the boards lately, so I'm hoping you haven't had to abandon this project

    4. #44
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      WOW!!!
      I have totally missed this thread until darrenkoi bumped it here.

      So looking forward to learning more about this.

      Doug - out
      See Our Pond http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...ond&highlight=

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    5. #45
      Zac Penn's Avatar
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      Thanks for the continued interest but I have no spare time for testing right now. I will back at it when I get a break in work.
      Zac Penn.... Please sign-up for our MAILING LIST HERE
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    6. #46
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      Bump and Marry Christmas to all


      " If a cluttered desk is sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then is an empty desk a sign?"
      Albert Einstein

    7. #47
      Zac Penn's Avatar
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      It has been a good year for me so far and I have not had any more free time to keep working on this. I will get back at it as soon as I can.
      Zac Penn.... Please sign-up for our MAILING LIST HERE
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    8. #48
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      Zac, are there any up dates to report?
      Thanks
      Doug


      " If a cluttered desk is sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then is an empty desk a sign?"
      Albert Einstein

    9. #49
      Cecil is offline Senior Member
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      I just got one of Zac's 3 inch airlifts and will be using it to move water in my outdoor aquaponics system. Unfortunately that's still a few weeks off and it's cooooooold here. Frost tonight and tomorrow night. Had snow today!

      Unlike last year where I used a 2 inch yamabuki I built, I will attempt put this in front of the fish tank vs. in front of the plant raft tank. (external air lift)

      Will take pics if anyone is interested complete with flow data.
      The risk I took was calculated, but man am I bad at math!

    10. #50
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      I would be very interested in a comparison test with your manifold
      vs
      http://www.alabdiffusers.com/airlift.htm

      how ever after plugging in their details your calculator pretty much nailed it anyhow so really do want too get my hands on your manifold :P

      they had 63 Submerge 5 LPM lift 1 inch 33.1 lpm and said when diffuser was removed became 6.2 lpm

      your manifold calculates Water Flow Produced: 31.125999999999998 GPM


      how ever you gave me the idea of lowering my filtration system to get more depth so I can move more water @ 0 head

      my tank's water level is 2m high and planing on siphoning into filtration system 1m below ground level then having 3m high lift tube going back into the tank just below water surface ( allowing air bubbles to do their thing to surface tension )

      my goal is to move over 100klph @ 200 watts or less its a bit hard working out air supply LPM
      based on depth to see if its worth while going deeper how ever

      going by your calculator
      120" LPM 20 0 head 84GPM
      80" LPM 20 0 head 64GPM
      how ever if I use a known pump air supply pressure chart
      http://www.matalausa.com/pdf/hk100l-graph.pdf
      actually even better their newer 200L model that's got best L / Watt and low PSI
      Name:  200L-curve.jpg
Views: 389
Size:  57.9 KB

      Rated 200L @ 77 inch depth / 2.85 PSi

      Inches Deep PSI Air
      77.83448276 2.85 200L
      58.17103448 2.13 250L
      27.31034483 1 350L
      97.22482759 3.56 175L
      106.7834483 3.91 150L
      126.1737931 4.62 100L
      136.0055172 4.98 50L

      forgive me not exact formula I used google to find
      "For every 33 feet (10.06 meters) you go down, the pressure increases by 14.5 psi"
      and created something along those lines

      396 inches = 14.5 psi = 0.9997398 Bar = 0.09997398 MPa
      1 inch = 0.03661616162 psi = 0.002524595455 Bar = 0.0002524595455 Mpa
      12 inch = 0.4393939394 psi = 0.03029514545 Bar = 0.003029514545 Mpa

      1006 cm = 14.5 psi = 0.9997398 Bar = 0.09997398 MPa
      1 cm = 0.01441351889 psi = 0.0009937771372 bar = 0.00009937771372 MPa
      30 cm = 0.4324055666 psi = 0.02981331412 bar = 0.002981331412 MPa

      so going by your calculator again
      Submerged Inches 0 head
      77.83448276 200L Air 282.28373793172 GPM
      58.17103448 250L Air 333.41100413656 GPM
      27.31034483 350L Air 439.87324138051 GPM
      97.22482759 175L Air 261.47073931223 GPM
      106.7834483 150L Air 235.77137380509998 GPM
      126.1737931 100L Air 184.5083751707 GPM
      136.0055172 50L Air 128.4947420484 GPM

      it would seem less submergence is more cost effective from air supply loss @ depth ???

      Submerged Inches 4 head

      77.83448276 200L Air 257.18373793172 GPM 1.428798544 gallons / watt
      58.17103448 250L Air 308.31100413656 GPM 1.712838912 gallons / watt
      27.31034483 350L Air 414.77324138051 GPM 2.304295785 gallons / watt
      97.22482759 175L Air 236.37073931223003 GPM 1.313170774 gallons / watt
      106.7834483 150L Air 210.6713738051 GPM 1.170396521 gallons / watt
      126.1737931 100L Air 159.4083751707 GPM 0.8856020843 gallons / watt
      136.0055172 50L Air 103.39474204840002 GPM 0.5744152336 gallons / watt


      and I just had to test with the hk100l after all with 4 inch head

      161.1310345 5.9 100L Air 176.7821241465 GPM 1.523983829 gallons / watt
      89.57793103 3.28 110L Air 153.40023172191 GPM 1.322415791 gallons / watt
      246.3393103 9.02 80L Air 194.7706372191 GPM 1.679057217 gallons / watt
      291.1282759 10.6 70L Air 204.8507531223 GPM 1.765954768 gallons / watt
      335.9172414 12.3 60L Air 214.9308689758 GPM 1.852852319 gallons / watt
      382.8910345 14.0 40L Air 213.9168441465 GPM 1.844110725 gallons / watt

      mm ok deeper IS better if the pump can handle the pressure

      actually quite sad now no idea which way to go 3m depth is only 120" that puts me @160 GPM
      do I go for 100L / 116 watt pump or 200L/ 180 watt pump with more depth ...

      then their is the Hailea V60 35 watts
      Name:  Aquarium Air Pump Hailea V_01.jpg
Views: 410
Size:  40.8 KB

      4 inch head

      39.6103066 60L 0.01 MPa 67.6663223802 GPM 1.9 gallons / watt
      79.2206132 40L 0.02 MPa 62.99264476039999 GPM 1.8 gallons / watt
      118.8309198 10L 0.03 MPa 46.13896714060001 GPM 1.3 gallons / watt



      some regen blowers low surface depth

      http://www.jehmco.com/html/regenerative_blowers.html
      RBSEZ-03 GPM GPM/Watt Watts
      14inch 566lpm 671.246 3.570457447 188
      27inch 311lpm 367.117 1.523307054 241
      RBSE-.3
      14inch 679lpm 808.88 2.407380952 336
      27inch 509lpm 608.281 1.617768617 376
      RBSJ-04
      14inch 1047lpm 1257.104 4.521956835 278
      27inch 821lpm 988.297 2.700265027 366
      54inch 396lpm 484.066 0.8462692308 572

      ps sorry for the hijacking I figured I would share some math I was doing this arvo ..

      also if someone can correct me on any reason why not to run a shallow airlift for low head application please let me know
      all I will be running is an moving bed bio filter on the side of the tank


      RBSJ-04 looks like a good blower, shame its over kill for me and will be a higher running cost
      RBSEZ-03 gets my 100KLhr (26417.2 GPH) water change for under 200watts @ 40 min


      http://www.gastmfg.com/support_documents/LTD139rE.pdf

      anyone used gast before ?
      its either they have GODLIKE efficiency or lie on their charts ... these blowers seem to have 2x performance/watts of any other blower I have data sheets on
      Last edited by MasterCATZ; 11-23-2015 at 12:28 AM.

    11. #51
      Zac Penn's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MasterCATZ View Post
      I would be very interested in a comparison test with your manifold
      vs
      http://www.alabdiffusers.com/airlift.htm

      how ever after plugging in their details your calculator pretty much nailed it anyhow so really do want too get my hands on your manifold :P

      they had 63 Submerge 5 LPM lift 1 inch 33.1 lpm and said when diffuser was removed became 6.2 lpm

      your manifold calculates Water Flow Produced: 31.125999999999998 GPM


      how ever you gave me the idea of lowering my filtration system to get more depth so I can move more water @ 0 head

      my tank's water level is 2m high and planing on siphoning into filtration system 1m below ground level then having 3m high lift tube going back into the tank just below water surface ( allowing air bubbles to do their thing to surface tension )

      my goal is to move over 100klph @ 200 watts or less its a bit hard working out air supply LPM
      based on depth to see if its worth while going deeper how ever

      going by your calculator
      120" LPM 20 0 head 84GPM
      80" LPM 20 0 head 64GPM
      how ever if I use a known pump air supply pressure chart
      http://www.matalausa.com/pdf/hk100l-graph.pdf
      actually even better their newer 200L model that's got best L / Watt and low PSI
      Name:  200L-curve.jpg
Views: 389
Size:  57.9 KB

      Rated 200L @ 77 inch depth / 2.85 PSi

      Inches Deep PSI Air
      77.83448276 2.85 200L
      58.17103448 2.13 250L
      27.31034483 1 350L
      97.22482759 3.56 175L
      106.7834483 3.91 150L
      126.1737931 4.62 100L
      136.0055172 4.98 50L

      forgive me not exact formula I used google to find
      "For every 33 feet (10.06 meters) you go down, the pressure increases by 14.5 psi"
      and created something along those lines

      396 inches = 14.5 psi = 0.9997398 Bar = 0.09997398 MPa
      1 inch = 0.03661616162 psi = 0.002524595455 Bar = 0.0002524595455 Mpa
      12 inch = 0.4393939394 psi = 0.03029514545 Bar = 0.003029514545 Mpa

      1006 cm = 14.5 psi = 0.9997398 Bar = 0.09997398 MPa
      1 cm = 0.01441351889 psi = 0.0009937771372 bar = 0.00009937771372 MPa
      30 cm = 0.4324055666 psi = 0.02981331412 bar = 0.002981331412 MPa

      so going by your calculator again
      Submerged Inches 0 head
      77.83448276 200L Air 282.28373793172 GPM
      58.17103448 250L Air 333.41100413656 GPM
      27.31034483 350L Air 439.87324138051 GPM
      97.22482759 175L Air 261.47073931223 GPM
      106.7834483 150L Air 235.77137380509998 GPM
      126.1737931 100L Air 184.5083751707 GPM
      136.0055172 50L Air 128.4947420484 GPM

      it would seem less submergence is more cost effective from air supply loss @ depth ???

      Submerged Inches 4 head

      77.83448276 200L Air 257.18373793172 GPM 1.428798544 gallons / watt
      58.17103448 250L Air 308.31100413656 GPM 1.712838912 gallons / watt
      27.31034483 350L Air 414.77324138051 GPM 2.304295785 gallons / watt
      97.22482759 175L Air 236.37073931223003 GPM 1.313170774 gallons / watt
      106.7834483 150L Air 210.6713738051 GPM 1.170396521 gallons / watt
      126.1737931 100L Air 159.4083751707 GPM 0.8856020843 gallons / watt
      136.0055172 50L Air 103.39474204840002 GPM 0.5744152336 gallons / watt


      and I just had to test with the hk100l after all with 4 inch head

      161.1310345 5.9 100L Air 176.7821241465 GPM 1.523983829 gallons / watt
      89.57793103 3.28 110L Air 153.40023172191 GPM 1.322415791 gallons / watt
      246.3393103 9.02 80L Air 194.7706372191 GPM 1.679057217 gallons / watt
      291.1282759 10.6 70L Air 204.8507531223 GPM 1.765954768 gallons / watt
      335.9172414 12.3 60L Air 214.9308689758 GPM 1.852852319 gallons / watt
      382.8910345 14.0 40L Air 213.9168441465 GPM 1.844110725 gallons / watt

      mm ok deeper IS better if the pump can handle the pressure

      actually quite sad now no idea which way to go 3m depth is only 120" that puts me @160 GPM
      do I go for 100L / 116 watt pump or 200L/ 180 watt pump with more depth ...

      then their is the Hailea V60 35 watts
      Name:  Aquarium Air Pump Hailea V_01.jpg
Views: 410
Size:  40.8 KB

      4 inch head

      39.6103066 60L 0.01 MPa 67.6663223802 GPM 1.9 gallons / watt
      79.2206132 40L 0.02 MPa 62.99264476039999 GPM 1.8 gallons / watt
      118.8309198 10L 0.03 MPa 46.13896714060001 GPM 1.3 gallons / watt



      some regen blowers low surface depth

      http://www.jehmco.com/html/regenerative_blowers.html
      RBSEZ-03 GPM GPM/Watt Watts
      14inch 566lpm 671.246 3.570457447 188
      27inch 311lpm 367.117 1.523307054 241
      RBSE-.3
      14inch 679lpm 808.88 2.407380952 336
      27inch 509lpm 608.281 1.617768617 376
      RBSJ-04
      14inch 1047lpm 1257.104 4.521956835 278
      27inch 821lpm 988.297 2.700265027 366
      54inch 396lpm 484.066 0.8462692308 572

      ps sorry for the hijacking I figured I would share some math I was doing this arvo ..

      also if someone can correct me on any reason why not to run a shallow airlift for low head application please let me know
      all I will be running is an moving bed bio filter on the side of the tank


      RBSJ-04 looks like a good blower, shame its over kill for me and will be a higher running cost
      RBSEZ-03 gets my 100KLhr (26417.2 GPH) water change for under 200watts @ 40 min


      http://www.gastmfg.com/support_documents/LTD139rE.pdf

      anyone used gast before ?
      its either they have GODLIKE efficiency or lie on their charts ... these blowers seem to have 2x performance/watts of any other blower I have data sheets on

      Wow you provided a lot of information in that post
      One thing to keep in mind is that my calculator is only for a single airlift manifold with a 3" riser tube. A 3" pipe can only produce so much water flow before the friction of the pipe limits the flow.

      Here are some good numbers to work from...
      Each of my airlift manifolds should only receive 10 lpm at a minimum an 40 lpm maximum of air supply in order to maintain efficiency. Too little air and the bubbles are not distributed properly through the air injection disk, and too much air creates back pressure and reduces efficiency. If you need to use more air to achieve your water flow rate goals then multiple manifolds should be used.
      The calculator is most accurate in real world lift situations that are 2" - 6" of lift height. Remember, in order for water to travel from one body to another, there must be a water level/pressure difference between those two bodies. What that means is...There is no such thing as 0 lift when bodies of water are connected by pipes. If that was the case then water would not flow between them.
      A 3" riser tube should not be pushed more than 2500 gph of water flow. Any more than that and friction is fighting the water movement too much and having a lower flow rate going through two manifolds will produce more efficient results.
      Submergence depth should be no less than 30" and no more than 65" deep. Too little submergence and it takes too much air to produce good results. Too much submergence and the pressure of the water reduces the total output of the air pump to a point where you are wasting electricity.
      Zac Penn.... Please sign-up for our MAILING LIST HERE
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      Zac@DeepwaterKoi.com
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    12. #52
      MasterCATZ is offline Junior Member
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      Smile

      ok when I say 0 head I mean something like

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkc5f_Ss8YQ

      I am still going to argue that 30' Submergence is not needed ( but yes depth viable when using high PSI )
      what I was trying to get at is their are more economical ways of getting high volume air at low pressures
      and it worked out that shallow became more economical to run
      my best result was 5 GPM / watt and what setting I chose was 3.5 GPM / watt

      I have 10" Submerged with 1000+ LPM H20 Flow @ 100 watts using Regenerative Blower
      if I ran the same setup 5" deeper it was 1/3 the flow and no real head gain
      if I ran it 5" submerged it would not get my needed 10" head at all ( unless I installed a valve to prevent water falling back down )
      but even then more air then water ( this was how ever my 5 GPM/watt I think it was only usable for around 3 inches head)

      I also discovered any-less then 80LPM of air it became uneconomical to run shallow

      Originally I was going to split the blower into multiple air lifts = ~10 LPM / airlift .. but no real water flow ( was aiming for 1000LPH )
      somewhere around 50 LPM got water moving but nothing like having 1x airlift with 400 LPM = 1000LPM+
      so what I ended up doing was running solenoids from my air supply that would cycle through my 24x air lifts ( I have around 3x air lifts running at one time with a couple of seconds before its next cycle )
      I am actually running 24 IBC aquaponic system via 1x 100 watt blower and I am cycling each IBC water supply in under 20 minutes

      each IBC is 960L but water level is around 900L mark ( about 60L lives in growbed ) so about 23 000L the airlift is moving over 60 000L per hour for 100 watts

      I'm very happy for me to do the same thing with water pumps it would cost me ~160 watts per 15 000L

      on another note because IBC's are so shallow ( maximum 1m / 40inch ) it just was not worth using the diaphragm pumps
      I think it worked out 100 watt 80 LPM pump @ 40" submergence was 60 GPM / 230 LPM : 3600GPH / 13800LPH
      which worked out around twice as efficient as an water pump but no where near as good as 24x :P

    13. #53
      Zac Penn's Avatar
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      Yeah I understand what you are going for when you talk about a 0 head situation, but I just wanted to emphasize that there really was no system at 0 head.

      I have never tried to install a swing check valve at the base of a high lift riser tube, because I don't think you should run an airlift at a high lift. They are me ants for low to moderate lift and that is where they are efficient. If you need to go higher than 8" then you should look into axial flow water pumps as they will be more efficient then.

      Would you like to share a few photos of your airlift manifold so we can get a better idea as to what you are working with?
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    14. #54
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      Zac,
      are you selling airlift components? I have made a few myself that are working well and I am thinking about a pond redo that will involve more airlift and less pumping. So just curious if you sell any or just use and advise about them.
      Ben

    15. #55
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      Quote Originally Posted by Cecil View Post
      I just got one of Zac's 3 inch airlifts and will be using it to move water in my outdoor aquaponics system. Unfortunately that's still a few weeks off and it's cooooooold here. Frost tonight and tomorrow night. Had snow today!

      Unlike last year where I used a 2 inch yamabuki I built, I will attempt put this in front of the fish tank vs. in front of the plant raft tank. (external air lift)

      Will take pics if anyone is interested complete with flow data.
      I am interested Cecil. Would love to see your flow data.

    16. #56
      MasterCATZ is offline Junior Member
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      Still wanting to buy your manifold to have something to compare with

      I thought I was going good until I found someone else's stats that where 20% better than mine

      they were moving over 320 GPH using 5 watt 9 LPM air-pump = 20 LPM h20

    17. #57
      MasterCATZ is offline Junior Member
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      Still wanting to buy your manifold to have something to compare with

      or if I send you mine for you to compare ? its 3d printed so I could also email you the file

      I have 2x base versions ( multiple funnels that clip onto it to suit different riser sizes )
      one uses 5x 200mm long Aero-Tube's = 1m length = 37LPM
      the other used 4x 150mm long Aero-Tube's = 60cm length = 22LPM

      I thought I was going good until I found someone else's stats that where 20% better than mine

      they were moving over 320 GPH
      around 5" lift
      less than 40" submergance ( IBC )
      using 5 watt 9 LPM air-pump = 20 LPM h20
      so 64GPH per watt

      How did you measure the back pressure anyhow ?

      sorry I could not work out your chart ( no labelling )

      was the left hand side LPM of air and the measurements GPM ?


      also when will you be doing the 36" tests ? as this is what I am really keen on comparing

      Did I Read you Chart Correctly ?

      Attachment 551435
      Attached Images Attached Images  
      Last edited by MasterCATZ; 05-06-2016 at 04:07 AM.

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