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    Thread: Koi with bacterial infection

    1. #21
      kodiak500 is offline Member
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      How do I treat it ?

    2. #22
      Bunyip is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by kodiak500 View Post
      My largest fish took a ride through a 3 in pvc pipe
      A bit off topic, but how did a fish that big take a ride through a 3" pipe?

      If it is fungus then Malachite Green (MG) is the best/safest treatment for fungal problems imo.

      Edit: PP will also work (treatment duration is the same as MG) however carries more risk if you are not familiar with PP use.
      Last edited by Bunyip; 12-29-2013 at 02:37 PM.
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    3. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by Bunyip View Post
      A bit off topic, but how did a fish that big take a ride through a 3" pipe?
      Hi Buny, not really OT. Well the bottom drain pipe 3 in.Became un attached and he came up to the surface and went through .I have a retro bottom drain and must remove it in the winter that is why it wasn't glued, anyway I won't let that happen again believe me.It was my first season so I'm learning.

      Thats the problem I don't know what it is and what is wrong with it's eye?
      Last edited by kodiak500; 12-29-2013 at 02:54 PM.

    4. #24
      cindy's Avatar
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      I agree the tail looks like a cold water fungus, the eye almost looks traumatized, not sure anything will fix.

      Have you brought the temp up to 50 yet? For fungus, you would do Proform C. Will have to do some looking on the eye, is it both sides? Only time I've seen cloudy eyes is trauma or from chemicals.
      My opinions in ER and on this forum are mine only. Use my advice at your own discretion.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."


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    5. #25
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      Dr. Roddy says bacterial in this old thread http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...-eye-on-my-koi
      My opinions in ER and on this forum are mine only. Use my advice at your own discretion.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."


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    6. #26
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      I hate to say it but the the eyes look so traumatized the fish looks blind to me.
      The risk I took was calculated, but man am I bad at math!

    7. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by cindy View Post
      I agree the tail looks like a cold water fungus, the eye almost looks traumatized, not sure anything will fix.

      Have you brought the temp up to 50 yet? For fungus, you would do Proform C. Will have to do some looking on the eye, is it both sides? Only time I've seen cloudy eyes is trauma or from chemicals.
      Yes I hit 50 tonight , the one eye is blind the other is just cloudy .It was hard for me to get a better pic, and I didn"t want to stress him anymore than I had to.What is the treatment you would recommend?
      Last edited by kodiak500; 12-29-2013 at 08:49 PM.

    8. #28
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      For your info and research on how to use PP follow this pdf protocol it will help you. The PP treatment dosage I suggest earlier post is 100% corrected unless someone else can tell me otherwise then please correct me.
      Like I said you don't have the experience or equipment to scrape and scope then what is the use of looking at pictures that just guessing or presuming as well. To get the injection is not easy that why I suggest you to do broad spectrum shotgun treatments. I depend on Dr Roddy M Conrad PP protocol to control the pathogen population for prevention as well for treating bacterium and fungus problems with huge success. So don't be afraid of PP and CT protocols it will help solve many koi sickness when properly used. I used all kind of treatments with good success but the most effective and broad spectrum that I find are these two PP and CT. Chloramine-T is used to treat bacterial gill disease and other bacterial infections. It can also be used to control monogenean trematodes (skin and gill flukes). The reason I suggest you use CT treatment to help bacterial infection that lead to better healing from my friend a koi dealer and my own experiences as well.
      You can also read this thread http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...th-Sticky-2012
      Potassium Permanganate Dr Roddy M Conrad.pdf

    9. #29
      cindy's Avatar
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      This is a good example of "find a mentor" and follow their advice. It doesn't have to be me.

      PP is dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. From that article:

      3. Precautions of Using Potassium Permanganate

      Before any discussion of potassium permanganate, we need to remember the hazards of handling potassium
      permanganate.

      Wear rubber gloves unless you want your hands stained brown.
      Wear eye protection, especially in any wind, because the tiniest granule in your eyes will give severe pain and is hazardous to vision.
      Wear old clothes since the stain from permanganate in any clothing is permanent.
      Do not overdose unless you are trying to kill your fish, I did this the first time I used it for sure, lost half my fish, had estimated pond volume incorrectly.
      If you dose at around 15 PPM, expect to lose half your fish, and burn the gills pretty badly on those who survive. If the pond is really dirty, you may get by if you dose high since the reaction of the PP with
      the muck and dissolved organics will drop the level pretty quickly.
      If you dose an extremely clean pond at 4 PPM, and the 4 PPM dose lasts a long time, you may lose about 5% of your fish to the stress. That is why I dropped my dose to 2 PPM from 4 PPM, at 2 PPM I never get into difficulty.
      Quote Originally Posted by cindy View Post
      Dr. Roddy says bacterial in this old thread http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...-eye-on-my-koi
      Quote Originally Posted by warlocktitan View Post
      For your info and research on how to use PP follow this pdf protocol it will help you. The PP treatment dosage I suggest earlier post is 100% corrected unless someone else can tell me otherwise then please correct me.
      Like I said you don't have the experience or equipment to scrape and scope then what is the use of looking at pictures that just guessing or presuming as well. To get the injection is not easy that why I suggest you to do broad spectrum shotgun treatments. I depend on Dr Roddy M Conrad PP protocol to control the pathogen population for prevention as well for treating bacterium and fungus problems with huge success. So don't be afraid of PP and CT protocols it will help solve many koi sickness when properly used. I used all kind of treatments with good success but the most effective and broad spectrum that I find are these two PP and CT. Chloramine-T is used to treat bacterial gill disease and other bacterial infections. It can also be used to control monogenean trematodes (skin and gill flukes). The reason I suggest you use CT treatment to help bacterial infection that lead to better healing from my friend a koi dealer and my own experiences as well.
      You can also read this thread http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...th-Sticky-2012
      Potassium Permanganate Dr Roddy M Conrad.pdf
      The thread that I posted was also from Dr. Roddy and explains bacterial infections and treatment with antibiotics for cloudy eyes.
      My opinions in ER and on this forum are mine only. Use my advice at your own discretion.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."


      K.O.I.

      Member: EIHIOICGI

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    10. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by cindy View Post
      This is a good example of "find a mentor" and follow their advice. It doesn't have to be me.

      PP is dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. From that article:







      The thread that I posted was also from Dr. Roddy and explains bacterial infections and treatment with antibiotics for cloudy eyes.
      I did mention to Kodiak about your link and advices. We are all here try to help him. I also steer him to general and great info from Koivalley as well so he can understand better. The info and instructions I gave to him base on my real practices of many cases of koi problems due to ignorance and overstock that lead to disasters. I even narrow down the instruction precisely base on his quarantine 120 gallons so he does not make any mistake when use PP and CT treatments. I was once like him so I feel him deeply.

    11. #31
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      What causes the fungus?

    12. #32
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      Not exactly sure Dave , it grew on the injured portions of his skin. And they were just scrapes nothing serious

    13. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by david pinder View Post
      What causes the fungus?
      In Karl's sticky on koi health. I'll make it easy. Scroll down to fifteen.

      This is not uncommon and is easily treatable. At least that has been my experience. A few times I have done nothing and it just goes away as the wound continues to heal.
      Last edited by kdh; 01-05-2014 at 09:03 PM.

    14. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by david pinder View Post
      What causes the fungus?
      There is always some fungus and bacteria in ponds (they are just part of the natural ecosystem). Fungus is opportunistic and is usually a secondary infection that can take hold when when our Koi already has damage to the skin or gills caused by parasites or bacterial infections (ulcers etc) or gets an injury that compromises the slime coat. This is more likely to be a problem if water conditions are poor and/or if the Koi is stressed and/or if the Koi is weak from ill-health.
      ......

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      ..........................

    15. #35
      david pinder is offline Senior Member
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      My pond is too large to catch any fish, can the pond be treated with chloramine t

    16. #36
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      It is my understanding that the Chloramine T is very toxic to the filters. It may be a preferred treatment in a QT, but I would be very reluctant to use it in a pond. The preferred treatment for fungus, as far as I know is the malachite green, and most find the malachite green in products like Proform C, but because the formalin in Proform C really needs to have temperatures above 50*, I would be reluctant to use it at this time of the year. I have in the past bought the malachite green as a separate product. Before buying it though, I would do some research on temperature restrictions on it. I am not aware of any, but my ponds are always above 50* so I haven't had occasion to do the research.

      "Our goal is to assist with emergency and Koi health issues, as well as educate on best practices. Please help us gain a clear picture by giving the original poster time to answer our questions before offering opinions and suggested treatments."

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    17. #37
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      Quote Originally Posted by RichToyBox View Post
      It is my understanding that the Chloramine T is very toxic to the filters. It may be a preferred treatment in a QT, but I would be very reluctant to use it in a pond. The preferred treatment for fungus, as far as I know is the malachite green, and most find the malachite green in products like Proform C, but because the formalin in Proform C really needs to have temperatures above 50*, I would be reluctant to use it at this time of the year. I have in the past bought the malachite green as a separate product. Before buying it though, I would do some research on temperature restrictions on it. I am not aware of any, but my ponds are always above 50* so I haven't had occasion to do the research.
      Either product, malachite green as a liquid swab or ProformC used as a swab would be effective in any temperature. RichToyBox is right. ChloramineT is toxic to the bacterial growth in filters. That is why it is better used as a dip. But in this case MG or FMC is the best choice.

      K
      Last edited by KoiValley; 01-07-2014 at 09:54 PM.
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    18. #38
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      Quote Originally Posted by david pinder View Post
      My pond is too large to catch any fish, can the pond be treated with chloramine t
      CT, contrary to the label directions is pretty nasty and as the post by RicToyBox mentioned it is toxic to the bacterial growth in filtration equipment.

      K
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      Certified: AKCA Better Health Practices December 2008




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    19. #39
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      Quote Originally Posted by david pinder View Post
      My pond is too large to catch any fish, can the pond be treated with chloramine t
      As others have stated MG (Malachite Green) would be a better option to treat the entire pond with and is effective at your low temperatures (read the directions for use carefully).

      However, before embarking on this course of action, as KDH alluded to, quite a few types of 'fungus' will clear up by themselves as long as your water quality is maintained to a high level. If you have poor water quality there is a good chance that no amount of 'treatments' will effectively resolve the issue because it will just keep returning.

      Also, if you cannot catch the Koi, how do you know what type of fungus it is? I'm presuming you are just taking a 'best guess' approach?
      ......

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      Outstanding Effort by All the Ki Kichi Team!

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    20. #40
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      Great news!!After 2 weeks of salt ,6 ppm and water 78 degrees , changing water like crazy .My fish has recovered Both eyes have completely recovered are clear and he can see fine.I have fed him lightly medicated feed everyday by hand feeding right into his mouth to insure he had them.Although I have a filter system set up {not cycled yet} I am having a problem with the ammonia levels at like .25 .It's a long story but I have city water and this is what is coming out of the tap between .25 and .50.Needless to say the last 2 weeks have been a battle with the water . It is time to go back to the pond so my question is just follow the same procedure in reverse cooling the water?And then putting him back in ?I will check tomorrow but I think the pond is about 35 degrees.I want to thank everyone for their help, it has been quite a learning experience .I am amazed on the recovery the fungus was completely covering both eyes see the pics, and now it's gone.

      Thank you Charlie

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