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  • Results 1 to 18 of 18

    Thread: Pond Plumbing Pipe Size?

    1. #1
      Patrickcrocetta is offline Junior Member
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      Pond Plumbing Pipe Size?

      I am designing my pond for a pressurized bead filter with pump. These are about 30' away from my 4,000 gallon, 4' deep KOI pond. I want to run a 3" diameter pipe (for my BD) and a 2" diameter pipe (for my skimmer) each running individually, side-by-side, about 20" underground and joining together via a 3-way valve (to control flow) just before the pump.

      Questions: First, do you think 1/2 HP pump should do the trick--considering all outflow will use a 2" diameter pipe and run about 15' back to a head height totaling 6' (4' high waterfall plus about 20" depth of pipe coming up from underground also....I am installing 3 jets so the water will be split to the waterfall and to the jets? Second, I live in CT and in the winter, things freeze. Should I shut down my skimmer and drain the piping near the pump to avoid pipe freeze or keep everything running? Third, how do people continue to protect and use the air diffuser pump in the winter? Does it freeze as it is open to the elements??? Forth, should I continue to run the pump and bead filter throughout the winter or just shut it all down and drop a submersible pump/filter into the center of the pond? What about the waterfall in the winter--shut it down and just run water through my jet system?

      Lots of questions, thanks for your help!

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    2. #2
      Joey S's Avatar
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      Can't answer your ?? about winter. Others will respond to that. There is a very extensive plumbing sticky here where you can tally all the fittings, pipe sizes, length of run and determine the head - to see if the pump is adequate. I will say that I have a 2" pipe from the skimmer to the pump and two 3" BDs to a 150 gallon vortex that also feeds the pump via a 4 inch pipe. I can't run the pump without the flow from the skimmer. I could close a valve in the skimmer line, but there is not enough flow from the vortex alone to keep the pump from sucking air. I wish I had plumbed a midlevel pickup to avoid this problem during water changes.
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    3. #3
      Patrickcrocetta is offline Junior Member
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      Joey...Thanks for the plumbing sticky and your help!

    4. #4
      stevek is offline Supporting Member
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      I live in the next state over ( RI ) ; I shut down my water pumps in the winter and blow out the lines so there is no standing water which will freeze. I do run my air pump all winter to keep an open hole in the ice. My air pump is under my deck, and I keep a piece of plywood over it to keep water/snow off of it. Has worked fine for me....
      If you try to keep a waterfall running all winter, you can have ice build up do some crazy things with the water flow, including sending water over the side of your pond and draining all the water out. Not a good thing when it's 5 degrees out in a blizzard.
      I use a 1/2 hp external pump to run 60 feet with 2 inch line and get good water flow.

    5. #5
      Patrickcrocetta is offline Junior Member
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      Thanks Stevek...good info.

    6. #6
      richtoybox's Avatar
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      If you were to cover the pond with a lean-to I would keep the filter going, but I would turn off the waterfall. Build in the ability to turn it off regardless, as your needs and desires will change over time.
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    7. #7
      ponyboy2442 is offline Senior Member
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      A lot depends on you I like loud water falls so no 1/2 won't cut it bead filters lose close to half of most pumps gph
      And it depends on which pump you use also
      Again for me use bigger pipes more flow is better
      And winter is up to you a little work and you can run it all winter long but bypass and waterfall rocks so they don't cool the water more than normal

    8. #8
      lukef's Avatar
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      don't. I repeat Don't use 3 inch pipe. use 2 inch or 4 inch diameter.... 3 inch and even worse 2.5 inch pipe is harder to get the right fitting for, and those fittings cost more. the money you save in using 3 inch pipe over 4 inch pipe is often negated by the price of the fittings . And you'll have more headaches trying to find various fittings for 3 inch pipe.
      All the other stuff you were asking about I'd have to see in person to be able to give a worthwhile opinion on
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    9. #9
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      duplicate post due to a glitch on the internet or the site
      "Those aren't poodles. They're Dobermans with afros."

    10. #10
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      Waterfall in the winter would bring your water out in the open FREEZING air. this really puts a chill in the pond. I live in Utah, for now I have a tiny pond, but I build a little scrap wood fort over it every winter and pur clear visquine over it. Since I've started doing this my pond hasn't froze yet. The plastic traps warm air under it, and allows the sun to warm it up like a green house. I hang a submersable pump 1/2 way down the pond and let the outflow shoot towards the surface. I do this to try to not bring the warmer water from the bottom up to the colder air up top. If you haven't started building this pond yet I would definitely do some research and dont rush into things... Make it right, and you and your fishy friends will be much more appreciative :D
      -Mike

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    11. #11
      Patrickcrocetta is offline Junior Member
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      All good information, thank you to all for your advice.

    12. #12
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      What will the foot print of your pond bottom be? That would determine what size BD pipe you should use, at least for gravity flow into a sieve or settlement tank. Most BDs are 4".
      If your BD will always go straight to the suction of a pump then run the 4" and the 2" skimmer line to a 2" tee, use a 2" single union ball valve on each side of the Tee for flow control. Just before the Tee neck the 4" BD pipe down to 2". Leave some of the 4" accessible if you ever want to cut into it to add a sieve or settlement tank.

      Pump size depends on your bead filter requirements. I use the Evolution ESS 7800 for most bead filter applications and it's a 1/2 hp pump.

      Don't use jets for under water returns, use 2" Dream Ponds TPR flanges. Jets will put to much back pressure on the pump and hurt flow. Durning the winter you can shut off the waterfall and send all the water to your under water returns.

      No problem on keeping everything running including the BD air pump durning the winter is all the equipment is covered and insulated and I would build a cover for the pond also.

    13. #13
      Patrickcrocetta is offline Junior Member
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      Steve,
      Thanks for your response. The foot print of the bottom will be all sloping to the center to the BD. I am thinking of a Sequence 7800 pump. This pump has a large leaf basket and is 1/2HP. If you know of the brand give me your advice. So just for clarity, if I build a solar cover roof over pond for winter you think I can run my skimmer too? Thanks for your advice on the 2" Dream Pond TPR flanges--very good! I will check into those.

      As a side question: my soil is clay. I am concerned about cave in's. I am planning on pouring an 18" deep X 12" wide concrete collar all around the top perimeter to not only set my coping rock on but also to secure the edge better. Do you think this will work out OK? What about water getting in under the liner at the BD? I am sinking the BD in about 160lbs of poured cement but with clay and Spring water I am concerned it may cause issue? Maybe I should just forget the BD and instead run a 30" three inch PVC pipe with holes drilled randomly and set that at the bottom of the pond to be used for a BD? Comments?

    14. #14
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      The only time that water under the liner is a problem is when the pond water level is lower than ground level. If the pond surface is slightly higher than the surrounding soil, then the weight of the water pushing down will be greater than the pressure of the ground water. If the ground water has that high a pressure, it will be pushing out of the ground as a spring. I have not heard of anyone having problems with true bottom drains leaking. I have had experience with side entrance piping having the liner pull down due to settlement around the pond and pull the liner away from the pipe. That can't happen when the lowest point is the bottom drain.
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    15. #15
      Patrickcrocetta is offline Junior Member
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      Rich, makes good sense. Thanks. BD will be what I do I think. What do you think regarding the skimmer and keeping it going in the winter? Also, what do you think on my clay soil conditions and building a concrete ring around the perimeter edge as a support for the coping rock and edge strength?

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      The only thing I can comment on is that we've ran our air pump for the last three winters without a problem. We just have it covered with one of those faux rocks. The last two winters here in Pa. we've run our skimmer. The year before last was mild but it was starting to get iffy until it started to warm up this spring. I don't know if I will do it this year or not.

    17. #17
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      As far as the concrete ring, I know that some have used them, some use a foundation at the bottom of the excavation and build block walls. Having vertical/near vertical walls has its benefits when it comes to predators, and also when trying to get out of a pond. The bottom gets slick, and trying to walk up a slope doesn't work. I think the clay type soil allows either, whereas a sandy soil caves in if not supported, and then the ring is sitting on air.

      As for keeping the skimmer going, my experience is based on Richmond Virginia weather and we are able to keep one going year round with no problems. I personally cover my ponds and heat the water with submersible heaters that make my electric bill about 2X what it would be without the ponds. If you build a cover, take advantage of solar gains, keep the cold wind off the pond, you can probably keep it from freezing at all and keep the complete system running. Having the filters run year round helps the fish transition from winter to summer with much less stress.
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    18. #18
      Patrickcrocetta is offline Junior Member
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      Richtoy, I thank you for your comments to this and my other post. Thank you.

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