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    Thread: Diy rdf

    1. #321
      Zoki51's Avatar
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      Great job Kurt…
      If the drum is not cycling maybe the drum is moving away from the front plate. If you don’t have a positive stop on the back and you and up with big gap bit win the drum and the front plate. I was planning to use screw on outside of the IBC and push the back plate to the front and use the seal at the same time.
      Last edited by Zoki51; 01-04-2017 at 10:02 PM.
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    2. #322
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      Thanks, Zoran, yes, I found that the IBC flexes quite a bit once it's filled with water. I'd carefully cut the dividing partition to closely hug the wall and floor but found gaps of up to 3/16" once it was full. Figuring that nothing sticks to polyethylene, plumber's putty was used to seal the gaps - that fixed that. About your suggestion, that's exactly what's happening and I had already made a temporary fix, but suspect it's still happening. The right way is probably to make an assembly that bolts to the open end of the barrel with rollers or bushings that reach through the partition to keep the two "mated."
      Last edited by kimini; 01-05-2017 at 10:14 AM.

    3. #323
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      Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
      Thanks, Zoran, yes, I found that the IBC flexes quite a bit once it's filled with water. I'd carefully cut the dividing partition to closely hug the wall and floor but found gaps of up to 3/16" once it was full. Figuring that nothing sticks to polyethylene, plumber's putty was used to seal the gaps - that fixed that. About your suggestion, that's exactly what's happening and I had already made a temporary fix, but suspect it's still happening. The right way is probably to make an assembly that bolts to the open end of the barrel with rollers or bushings that reach through the partition to keep the two "mated."
      I am only just catching up with this thread beloveds, and am blown away re your dedication to making this `WORK` phor you guys involved

      Try to back away from frustration meanwhile, solutions are in vogue as we speak ... how the hell else do we `HONE` Potential ? twill never be achieved via worry/concern of any kind

      Kick back, enjoy 2017, baby steps

      I LOVE YOU GUYS Ingenuity, tis where genius re ideas, big, or small in every walk of life unfolds organically

    4. #324
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      Update: it's been running several weeks now and yesterday the sliding seal was finally fixed the right way. The good news is that the leak path is gone. The bad news is that because I fixed it, it cycles more often. Among the variables dictating cycle frequency, I think another is the fish messing around down near the drain and stirring up stuff. Sometimes it'll not cycle for half an hour, only to then cycle every 5 minutes for a spell.

      For a temporary "lid" I cut up a 4 x 8 x 2" piece of foam board. It works really well though it's not going to last in the sun.

      Lastly, welding 304 stainless and ignorantly thinking it wouldn't be an issue was a bad assumption. When melted, some stainless steels decomposes and the weld will rust as bad as regular steel, and it is. I can try spraying the welds with something but seeing that, along with everything I've learned, has me thinking of grand solutions,
      Last edited by kimini; 01-16-2017 at 08:24 PM.

    5. #325
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      I am not sure of the technique for welding stainless, but the heat has to be high enough to weld and quenched quickly to prevent much of the carbon and chromium from dissociating as much as possible. When the chrome and carbon are allowed to separate within the steel, the color will go to blue and the weld area will essentially be just carbon steel, not protected at all from the rusting. I have some books from my Materials Engineering course that described the crystal structure of stainless with the number of chromium atoms, and carbon atoms, with the iron. To get them into the right structure requires heating to a magical heat and holding it there, and then quenching. I wish that I could remember the temperatures.

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    6. #326
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      Oh I know all that but usually get away with it because it's automotive related, typically with the parts being powder-coated. Guess I could do that as well...

    7. #327
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      Are you sure you used 316 stainless steel welding rods.
      "14" Stainless Steel Can Stick Electrode with 1/8" Dia. and E316/316L-16 AWS Classification
      Item# 12C131 Mfr. Model# ED033105 Catalog Page# 3034 UNSPSC# 23171512"
      Zoran

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    8. #328
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      Well that didn't go great...

      I started getting suspicious how the filter was working after 8 weeks, as the inlet and outlet water level seemed to be getting closer and closer together. As a result, the last time the float switch triggered a wash cycle, the water didn't drop enough to release the float switch and the system just sat there with the float switch closed. The good thing is that I programmed it so it wouldn't constantly cycle if this happened; the bad thing was that the screen gradually plugged up enough to overflowed. Removing the lid showed what was going on...

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      So I got to spend four hours replacing the fabric, which was really weak. I now know this fabric was a poor choice so I've bought myself about 8 weeks to get the new one online. While I haven't completely written off filter fabric, Rayon/Polyester obviously isn't up to constant water immersion and being blasted with the sprayers. I could stick my finger through it anywhere and it was coming apart on its own right under each sprayer's centerline.

      Looks like I'm going with stainless for the new filter, though I know that stuff has its own issues. From what I read, stainless has microscopic burrs on it such that even when sprayed, some debris remains trapped. Also, over time, calcium deposits build up on it, gradually reducing flow. Not sure whether a phosphoric acid bath can restore such a screen, but at $200-$500 for a new one, it's worth looking into.
      Last edited by kimini; 02-27-2017 at 10:00 AM.

    9. #329
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      Is the filter fabric you are using designed for silk screening?

    10. #330
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      I don't know but doubt it. It was advertised as "filter fabric" on the Mcmaster.com website.

    11. #331
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      I'm thinking of using these Silkscreening materials for my DIY filter. I have tested them before under submersible condition (4weeks) but not under the condition that you had. I just want to know if they are the same so I can decide to use it in my future filter or not. Thanks.

    12. #332
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      Here's the Rayon/Polyester material I got from McMaster: 92255T7. They also offer Polyester-only material which they claim is "stronger", whatever that means.

    13. #333
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      Ok. Thanks.

    14. #334
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      Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
      Well that didn't go great...

      I started getting suspicious how the filter was working after 8 weeks, as the inlet and outlet water level seemed to be getting closer and closer together. As a result, the last time the float switch triggered a wash cycle, the water didn't drop enough to release the float switch and the system just sat there with the float switch closed. The good thing is that I programmed it so it wouldn't constantly cycle if this happened; the bad thing was that the screen gradually plugged up enough to overflowed. Removing the lid showed what was going on...


      So I got to spend four hours replacing the fabric, which was really weak. I now know this fabric was a poor choice so I've bought myself about 8 weeks to get the new one online. While I haven't completely written off filter fabric, Rayon/Polyester obviously isn't up to constant water immersion and being blasted with the sprayers. I could stick my finger through it anywhere and it was coming apart on its own right under each sprayer's centerline.

      Looks like I'm going with stainless for the new filter, though I know that stuff has its own issues. From what I read, stainless has microscopic burrs on it such that even when sprayed, some debris remains trapped. Also, over time, calcium deposits build up on it, gradually reducing flow. Not sure whether a phosphoric acid bath can restore such a screen, but at $200-$500 for a new one, it's worth looking into.
      i have been running my first DIY rdf for over 2 years and just replaced the stainless screen due to tearing. it did seem to slow a bit after 4 months, i believe this was more from bio buildup then debris clogging it. to increase the flow i just lightly sprayed the exposed screen with muriatic acid and then ran a cleaning cycle, i did this until the entire drum was cleaned. i am also running a 37 micron screen that is flowing about 9k per hour.
      Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead. - Benjamin Franklin.

      you cant fix stupid no matter how hard you try.

    15. #335
      kimini is offline Senior Member
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      Yeah I wondered whether the stainless screen would tear for the same reason, being flexed one way due to the water's load, than pushed the other way by the force of the spray. 37 micron is pretty darn tight and about 25% thinner than the 60-micron I'm going to use, so we'll see what happens. I still think filter cloth can work, just need to do the research.

    16. #336
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      Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
      Yeah I wondered whether the stainless screen would tear for the same reason, being flexed one way due to the water's load, than pushed the other way by the force of the spray. 37 micron is pretty darn tight and about 25% thinner than the 60-micron I'm going to use, so we'll see what happens. I still think filter cloth can work, just need to do the research.
      maybe try turning down the pressure on the spray bar?
      Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead. - Benjamin Franklin.

      you cant fix stupid no matter how hard you try.

    17. #337
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      It's already turned down as far as I dare. I did back the spray bar away from the drum to buy myself some more time, hopefully.

    18. #338
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      what about adding a T on the line between the pump and spray bar with a valve and send some of the extra water back into the inlet area of the filter, then you could bleed off as much water as you think would help.

      20 bucks in parts you most likely have sitting around and 15 minutes work could be a piece of mind
      Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead. - Benjamin Franklin.

      you cant fix stupid no matter how hard you try.

    19. #339
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      You could also try changing the angle of your spray bar so that the spray is not so perpendicular to the screen. This should decrease the force on the screen.

    20. #340
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      Suggest you look at EZ Strainers (sold by US Plastic and others) for the type of material used for their bucket/pail/barrel strainers. It's a high density polyethylene material (HDPE) that is food-grade and comes in various mesh sizes. Several years ago I brought 55gal barrel EZ Strainers in 400, 200 & 100 microns on a whim and used the 100 micron screen to filter an algae bloom in my pond, I could not leave the temporary setup too long due to the screen catching a lot of algae quickly. I just did a search to see if you could buy the material in sheet form and found one Chinese (naturally) company, Share Industries (http://www.shareindustries.com/2015/05/28/share/[/url]), that manufactures it in 59” widths. There may be others, may be worth a try.

      BTW, this material looks very similar to the filter material in my Profidrum.
      ....."Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.".....Mark Twain

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