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  1. #321
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    UPDATE:

    The drum filter is now operational*. Observations:

    1. The sprayer is very loud, to me at least; it kind of spoils the serenity of the pond plus I don't want to annoy the neighbors. I'm thinking about fabricating a lid or cover, maybe using foil-covered 2"-thick wall foam.

    2. It cycles more often than expected, whatever that means. It's probably the consequence of having never run anything other than a settling tank, so there's all sorts of crap - figuratively and literally - to be filtered out. I assume over the coming weeks it'll calm down and the cycle time will slow.

    3. It's surprisingly "moody"; sometimes it'll cycle within 5 minutes and the next time it might be 30 minutes. It might be due to the ring on the drum not being perfectly square (back to my rant about "good enough" plastic drum manufacturing). Because the ring isn't perfectly square, there's a small gap that travels around with the rotation. Depending where the gap ends up, above or below water, it speeds up or slows down how long it takes for the filter to load up. The lower the water flow the more that matters.

    4. I never really thought through the consequences of running a drum filter. Right now, ever 10 minutes or so it produces about a gallon of icky water that has to go "somewhere." If the yard was finished it would run to plants but until the yard is sorted it's getting dumped into the storm drain, which in my case, runs out to the street. Not sure how much the neighbors will appreciate stinky green water flowing by their driveways - maybe the sound of the sprayer will distract them.

    5. The previous system was nearly passive with a settling tank and moving-bed bio. About the worst that could happen was for the air pump to quit. Now, I wake up at night wondering if: the float switch has stuck, the chain broke, the solenoid valve failed, the timer module shorted out, a wire broke, or a million other things that can cause a small disaster. Because my setup is pump-fed for now, I probably need to add overflow ports so that if the filter doesn't successfully trigger the sprayer, the incoming water can bypass the drum so it doesn't overflow. The point is, if you're going to use a drum filter, fabricated or bought, know that you're buying into a system with a much higher chance of failure and the need to keep a close eye on the unit.

    *The drum filter is currently being used with the old pond, where the bottom drain feeds the pump which pushes water to the drum filter. The new pond will gravity-feed the filter.
    Last edited by kimini; 1 Week Ago at 12:18 AM.
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  2. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
    UPDATE:

    The drum filter is now operational*. Observations:

    1. The sprayer is very loud, to me at least; it kind of spoils the serenity of the pond plus I don't want to annoy the neighbors. I'm thinking about fabricating a lid or cover, maybe using foil-covered 2"-thick wall foam.

    2. It cycles more often than expected, whatever that means. It's probably the consequence of having never run anything other than a settling tank, so there's all sorts of crap - figuratively and literally - to be filtered out. I assume over the coming weeks it'll calm down and the cycle time will slow.

    3. It's surprisingly "moody"; sometimes it'll cycle within 5 minutes and the next time it might be 30 minutes. It might be due to the ring on the drum not being perfectly square (back to my rant about "good enough" plastic drum manufacturing). Because the ring isn't perfectly square, there's a small gap that travels around with the rotation. Depending where the gap ends up, above or below water, it speeds up or slows down how long it takes for the filter to load up. The lower the water flow the more that matters.

    4. I never really thought through the consequences of running a drum filter. Right now, ever 10 minutes or so it produces about a gallon of icky water that has to go "somewhere." If the yard was finished it would run to plants but until the yard is sorted it's getting dumped into the storm drain, which in my case, runs out to the street. Not sure how much the neighbors will appreciate stinky green water flowing by their driveways - maybe the sound of the sprayer will distract them.

    5. The previous system was nearly passive with a settling tank and moving-bed bio. About the worst that could happen was for the air pump to quit. Now, I wake up at night wondering if: the float switch has stuck, the chain broke, the solenoid valve failed, the timer module shorted out, a wire broke, or a million other things that can cause a small disaster. Because my setup is pump-fed for now, I probably need to add overflow ports so that if the filter doesn't successfully trigger the sprayer, the incoming water can bypass the drum so it doesn't overflow. The point is, if you're going to use a drum filter, fabricated or bought, know that you're buying into a system with a much higher chance of failure and the need to keep a close eye on the unit.

    *The drum filter is currently being used with the old pond, meaning the bottom drain feeds the pump directly and is pushing water to the drum filter. When the new pond is ready, the drum filter will be gravity-fed.
    1) i would strongly recommend a lid not only will it quiet the spraying noise it will also save on over spray saving you water in the long run

    2) once the drum filter has cleaned the pond to the smallest participial not allowed to pass through the drum the cleaning cycles will extent in time intervals. now this is all based on the amount of koi and the rate at witch you feed. (example) mine cycled every 5 minuted for the first day then slowly extended to 15 minutes between cleanings now my average cleaning cycle is every 30 to 40 minutes. that is with 10 koi ranging from 12" to 18" and a good feeding rateabout 5 cups a day.

    3) maybe think about adding a seal to help correct the open area issue. this may be a short term fix until you remake a better drum.

    4) i think you should rethink the nozzle size and output. my drum is about 1/4 the size of yours and i am and has 7 spray nozzles, after a full 1.5 rotation of cleaning i have less then 3 cups of dirty water. so if you use .5 to 1 rotations for cleanings you should be around 6 cups of dirty water

    5) i think this goes through everyone's mind trust in your build and do add the overflow holes. i know i had my doubts about mine when i first fired it up but after a few days i knew it was good to go. now that doesn't mean down the road you wont have i hick up every now and then but that is part of the fun lol


    over all i think you did a great job and you will be very satisfied with the filter.. congrats
    Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead. - Benjamin Franklin.

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  3. #323
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    Thanks for the comments!

    1. There's not a lot of overspray from the spray bar but yes, a lid is needed regardless.

    2. There are about a dozen variables that contribute to how often the sprayer cycles and I'm still playing around with it. As said above, it was cycling very frequently for the first few days. I tried backing off on the water flow and at first it slowed the cycle rate by about 50%, but now it isn't cycling at all. Every time I checked it, the inlet side was about 2" higher than the outlet where it reached an equilibrium. Apparently it's a balance of water leaking and not enough particulates having plugging up the filter enough to raise the inlet level that last bit needed to trigger a cycle. I'll try varying flow rate and/or water level, as having it cycle at least once an hour seems more appropriate. There's no way it's fully cleaned the pond so quickly.

    3. Regarding the seal, I'm still working on that. At first I tried a rubber strip but it wouldn't stay flat due to being too low a durometer. Next I tried a strip of PVC but it's too stiff and not conforming well enough to the curved wall. The answer is to probably combine the two.

    4. Regarding the sprayers, Mine are 0.5 GPM@40 psi; your nozzles must be much smaller. For your case, 3/16 gallons = Spray rate x 7 nozzles x 0.25 minute (a guess), so I get about 0.1GPM for your nozzles, is that correct? That corresponds to something like the 30995K31 sold by Mcmaster.com.

    Thanks again.
    Last edited by kimini; 1 Week Ago at 04:55 PM.
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  4. #324
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    Great job KurtÖ
    If the drum is not cycling maybe the drum is moving away from the front plate. If you donít have a positive stop on the back and you and up with big gap bit win the drum and the front plate. I was planning to use screw on outside of the IBC and push the back plate to the front and use the seal at the same time.
    Last edited by Zoki51; 1 Week Ago at 11:02 PM.
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  5. #325
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    Thanks, Zoran, yes, I found that the IBC flexes quite a bit once it's filled with water. I'd carefully cut the dividing partition to closely hug the wall and floor but found gaps of up to 3/16" once it was full. Figuring that nothing sticks to polyethylene, plumber's putty was used to seal the gaps - that fixed that. About your suggestion, that's exactly what's happening and I had already made a temporary fix, but suspect it's still happening. The right way is probably to make an assembly that bolts to the open end of the barrel with rollers or bushings that reach through the partition to keep the two "mated."
    Last edited by kimini; 1 Week Ago at 11:14 AM.
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  6. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
    Thanks, Zoran, yes, I found that the IBC flexes quite a bit once it's filled with water. I'd carefully cut the dividing partition to closely hug the wall and floor but found gaps of up to 3/16" once it was full. Figuring that nothing sticks to polyethylene, plumber's putty was used to seal the gaps - that fixed that. About your suggestion, that's exactly what's happening and I had already made a temporary fix, but suspect it's still happening. The right way is probably to make an assembly that bolts to the open end of the barrel with rollers or bushings that reach through the partition to keep the two "mated."
    I am only just catching up with this thread beloveds, and am blown away re your dedication to making this `WORK` phor you guys involved

    Try to back away from frustration meanwhile, solutions are in vogue as we speak ... how the hell else do we `HONE` Potential ? twill never be achieved via worry/concern of any kind

    Kick back, enjoy 2017, baby steps

    I LOVE YOU GUYS Ingenuity, tis where genius re ideas, big, or small in every walk of life unfolds organically

  7. #327
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    Update: it's been running several weeks now and yesterday the sliding seal was finally fixed the right way. The good news is that the leak path is gone. The bad news is that because I fixed it, it cycles more often. Among the variables dictating cycle frequency, I think another is the fish messing around down near the drain and stirring up stuff. Sometimes it'll not cycle for half an hour, only to then cycle every 5 minutes for a spell.

    For a temporary "lid" I cut up a 4 x 8 x 2" piece of foam board. It works really well though it's not going to last in the sun.

    Lastly, welding 304 stainless and ignorantly thinking it wouldn't be an issue was a bad assumption. When melted, some stainless steels decomposes and the weld will rust as bad as regular steel, and it is. I can try spraying the welds with something but seeing that, along with everything I've learned, has me thinking of grand solutions,
    Last edited by kimini; 1 Hour Ago at 09:24 PM.
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  8. #328
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    I am not sure of the technique for welding stainless, but the heat has to be high enough to weld and quenched quickly to prevent much of the carbon and chromium from dissociating as much as possible. When the chrome and carbon are allowed to separate within the steel, the color will go to blue and the weld area will essentially be just carbon steel, not protected at all from the rusting. I have some books from my Materials Engineering course that described the crystal structure of stainless with the number of chromium atoms, and carbon atoms, with the iron. To get them into the right structure requires heating to a magical heat and holding it there, and then quenching. I wish that I could remember the temperatures.
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  9. #329
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    Oh I know all that but usually get away with it because it's automotive related, typically with the parts being powder-coated. Guess I could do that as well...
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  10. #330
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    Are you sure you used 316 stainless steel welding rods.
    "14" Stainless Steel Can Stick Electrode with 1/8" Dia. and E316/316L-16 AWS Classification
    Item# 12C131 Mfr. Model# ED033105 Catalog Page# 3034 UNSPSC# 23171512"
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